Anti Zerg MAX tactics Anti Zerg tactics and balance ! - Page 2

Immigrant · 2012-04-16, 02:38 AM

Propane usually works well on the zerg:
On the one side if there will be no extra special outfit benefits for the players "massive oufits" shouldn't be a problem. Coordinating such huge numbers of players requires more effort and thus should be rewarding. On the other side if larger clans gain access to equipment or bonuses more quickly there really should be some quality vs quantity balance. I think it should be up to players to decide if they want to organize their empires as groups of tightly knit smaller outfits or as few groups of huge outfits with no specials gains to either form of organization.

Stew · 2012-04-16, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by The Kush

This is a MMOFPS, if you have the leadership to organize a zerg then more power to you. There is no rules to the game, if you organize a massive attack then hopefully the defending side has enough skill to organize a massive defense. The developers have been working hard to keep the game balanced, if an outfit flys over with 100 reavers, then have 100 AA guys shooting them down. Its a game of chess, if you arent smart enough to stop a zerg then you are going to lose your resources, this is the whole point of the game for the strategy player and its damn fun in my opinion. I love smashing a huge opposition zerg or leading a massive offensive zerg, these were some of my best memories of planetside 1. Max crashes lining up in towers and storming a base, organizing 10 galaxys to drop soldiers on an enemy base, these were the magical times you got to love about PS.

You do not understand My point !

A good RTS or tactical game is a game where something is always the NEMESIS of something else like in a game well balance 5 group of pik man willl outmatch 10 cavalery thats my point !

I dont want to have to get like 100 contermax unit to face 100 max unit the Max will be the nemesis of something else but the MAx have to have his nemesis as well !

U get the point ?

I dont care about this or this group can zerg or anything like this

Iam worried about exploits and team balanced and Deep strategies if the ZERG strategies is to easy to achive whiout any punishement so everybody will start to use mostly 1 or 2 class and will exploits the much as they can the game it will break the game and the game will fails !

yes a few people will still stay but the $ provided by those few people will not be enough to suport the game dev and the servers and the extra contents etc.. and since their is only PVP and its a F2p we need numbers and balance if u dont want this game to die whitthin a years !

Thats mean MAx vs something else 50 max can outmatch 100 others
Anti max class have to outmatch MAX whith 50 vs 100 MAX
etc... So this will keep balanced into the game because any class have to have a nemesis !

DDSHADE · 2012-04-16, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by EVILPIG

You're asking for rock, paper, scissors. That is the core of PS2's balance.

Well said.

If the NC are throwing only Rocks, the obvious choice is Paper, but an equal amount of Rock should stop them too.

If one empire chooses to zerg with one unit type, the initial blow could be devastating, however it's also a risk for there could already be countermeasures in place.

For example, if you fear a MAX crash at your backdoor, cover the ground in mines, and get an AV loadout.

The core gameplay balance in PS is based around everything having a weakness, as well as something it's strong against. I can only expect PlanetSide 2 will be the same!

Kilmoran · 2012-04-16, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Stew

I would deeply want to know what soe have planned to conter Cheap huge Zerg clan tactics such as overwhelming MAX units or reaver,scythe , mosquito etc..

i would like to see everything having a deep weakness while used in (( unbalanced numbers ))

I would like to see balanced class with conter class systhem !

ive seen to many games rts or fps where u cant use a single class and simply whipe out the ennemies i would like to see something that discourages players and huge clan mostly to use those kind of cheap tactics !

I've never really seen a zerg beat proper tactics with against a decent force. All i see is the kill count go up.

Cosmical · 2012-04-16, 06:30 AM

As others have said, as far as balance goes. If there are abundent planes, everyone will switch to anti-air infantry. If there are tanks, anti armour. Everyone will have access to every units weakness at all times. So it really does become a rock paper scissors, the skill will be having enough scissors to stop the paper, and so that the rocks dont push through in the meantime.

Fenrod · 2012-04-16, 06:33 AM

Judging from the classes we get in Planetside 2, there will be several ways to counter zergs...

C4, mines...

Plus, the map will be so wide you will be able to flee away or take them by behind, from the air or from the ground.

Kilmoran · 2012-04-16, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Cosmical

As others have said, as far as balance goes. If there are abundent planes, everyone will switch to anti-air infantry. If there are tanks, anti armour. Everyone will have access to every units weakness at all times. So it really does become a rock paper scissors, the skill will be having enough scissors to stop the paper, and so that the rocks dont push through in the meantime.

Just because you have an army of scissors doesn't mean any of them know how to cut in a straight line.

Dov · 2012-04-16, 06:59 AM

umm... what happens in real war? you die / retreat and counter attack with more forces. You can't win 'em all dude.

Tamas · 2012-04-16, 11:06 AM

I've not seen z zerg force win for a long time. You take any game - mass rushing tends to fail, because people that do zerg are usually not that good. I say - more kills for me, so let them come (speaking from experience). I love holding out against very large enemy force with only 1/5 of their force size.

Besides if 2 zergs clash = super fun chaos. I don't understand when people go that we need 1000vs1000vs1000 and then think there won't be large battles or discourage people from playing together.

Miir · 2012-04-16, 01:33 PM

There are two concerns I have about the zerg this time around.

First is how it will affect game performance. This game is all about massive battles. If it happens that we can only have a couple hundred people fighting before the server or our systems take a performance hit than they will need to come up with some sort of method to limit how big the zerg can get. I believe the territory capture system should help this a lot. But with nothing in place to prevent a large zerg from forming. Commanders may resort to just throwing numbers at a battle to win and the natural reaction of defense is to throw numbers to defend. So it could be an issue.

Second concern with the zerg is population balance. The game/weapons/vehicle balance only really works if the populations are close. I'm not sure giving an XP bonus will be enough to get empire loyalists to jump to another side. Maybe this will be where NPC's come into play do the road? I just don't see an easy answer to this one.

Hmr85 · 2012-04-16, 01:50 PM

I am fine with Max crashes and so on its a legit strategy. There is a good motto some of you could learn from the military.

Improvise, Adapt, Overcome

If you can't do that then be prepared to get your ass handed to you every time. People will continue to use what works.

Ruffdog · 2012-04-16, 04:04 PM

I would say trust the dev team to give you the tools to counter and deal with most things you see. If you see 20 maxes or 20 tanks come your way then prepare for a glorious death because you won't be able to pull some magic wand from a terminal to counter it. It'll be a learning curve, and hey, you can respawn.

Rumblepit · 2012-04-16, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Irish

Zerg is effective because its simple, and promotes multiple players following a simple plan. i dont think they are any more overpowered then a same size group of super elite players.

their effectiveness is compounded by the lack of a plan and coordination on the receiving end.

if, as a group, the defenders rapidly executed an equally simple plan. ie decimator kill squad..(for a max crash) the initial shock of the crash can be eliminated quickly

in my opinion their doesnt have to be a direct game mechanic to counter a play strategy, it should be strategy to counter

i agree with this guy^^^^^^^^^^

its not a issue , nor has it been.

MrBloodworth · 2012-04-16, 05:27 PM

The game is being designed for the zerg.

Mezorin · 2012-04-17, 07:40 AM

Zergs are going to be a part of the game, always have been. In fact, the fact that we have 1000vs1000vs1000 battles going on is the reason we're all behind playing Planetside 2, and not just saying "meh" and going back to Battlefield 3. This sometimes means you will be out numbered 2 to 1 (or more) on the defensive, and rather than whining about it a good outfit learns defensive battle tactics against the zerg. You may not be able to push them back, but if 20 guys are able to keep 60+ otherwise occupied, you are helping your empire win by stalling a much lager force.

MAX crashes were effective in their simplicity, focused firepower, and surprise capability. Azure Twilight or the 666th Devil Dogs could do some pretty scary shit to a red alert base with those MAX zergs if you did not see them coming. But when a defending team is aware of an impending MAX crash, they can be easily countered. Just like if you know 20 reavers are going to slam into a base in the next ten minutes, or 10 vanguards are coming: you get the appropriate counter units (which will be dead easy given everyone has 'every' class and vehicle unlocked from day 1) and deal with them.

Maps will have terrain favoring outnumbered defenders, and we even have a class specially built for defensive fortifications: the Engineer. Find a good choke point killzone, setup AV turrets, anti tank/MAX mines, and some dug in heavy armored tanks backed up by HA troopers. Get a cannon equiped liberator or two in the air, and baton down the hatches for when the horde arrives. If you don't out right kill a MAX swarm with that, you will cripple it to the point where the follow up counter push will mass kill them. Hell, even a 10 unit AV lightning wolf pack could put a lot of hurt while those MAXes are charging out in the open, assuming that MAX suits have run mode like the old days.