The Sniper Debate - Once and for All!!!

[NapalmEnima]

// The Scene: Camping Carl searches for a dead horse

Carl: Where oh where has my dead horse gone? Where oh where can he be?

NE: See that pile of maggots over yonder? That's all thats left of the dead horse. Bugs and a skeleton. Kinda gross really... but I suppose if you really wanna give it another whack, be my guest.

[DLR Evil Napkin]

heh

[Camping Carl]

::Pours gasoline on horse, lights::

[mistled]

I know this is a stupid thing to say here, and I fully expect to get ripped for it, but here goes. Two things.

One.... There shouldn't be any semi-auto sniper rifles. I don't know if there are in this game or not, but there shouldn't be any in any game. All they do is promote wannabe sniping. If you don't hit your target on the first try, you should be moving location so he doesn't kill you. And if you CAN'T hit your target on the first try, put away the sniper rifle and get a machine gun like everyone else. Bolt action single shot rifles are the only way to do it. Sniping should be difficult. And it should be difficult for the following reason....

Two.... one shot should be able to kill anyone. Don't get me wrong here. When I say one shot, I mean one shot between the eyes. None of this "I hit your leg, so you should die" bullshit. I'll even concede that a shot to the back of the head on a max could be deflected enough to require a second shot. But there isn't a pair of goggles in this universe that can withstand a sniper bullet and still be transparent enough to see through. If you get shot in the face, that should be it.

There's a reason snipers are feared in battle. A reason that people hide when they know snipers are around. A reason why they are the most hated and most loved men on the battlefield (depending on who's getting shot at and whose ass is being covered of course). And I'll tell you what. Four hit kills isn't that reason.

Flame on.

mistled
One Shot. One Kill.

[mistled]

and yes, I know I'm helping to beat that poor defenseless horse. But he's dead, so I bet he doesn't mind.

and that 'once and for all' thing is funny... we'll be arguing this until we die. :-)

[Camping Carl]

I disagree with everything you said! I didn't actually read any of it, but I'm sure I would disagree with you, had I read it. Really, I just love to disagree with people.

[Unknown]

The only sniper rifle in the game is the bolt driver - a single action, reload after each shot rifle (and it's a rifle BTW, so infiltrators cant carry it - no cloaking snipers).

I see your point but I don't think anyone should be able to kill a MAX in one shot. That's just too much power in one person's hands.

[Camping Carl]

Yes, that's what the decimator is for.

[Vimp]

The idea of taking someone out by continueingly shooting them in the foot or the hand is one of the silliest things about the game. And from what I hear the only different parts to hit are body and head so the silliness continues since being shot in the heart can and will hurt as much as being shot in the finger or toe.

[Psycho21]

Ok, so a poll probably won't end the debate forever. However, this game is being made for the people, and the aim of the devs is to make it as much like what they want as possible. I agree that the poll is not accurate because without actually trying the game out htere is no way to get a feel for the balance.

If a MAX gets shot, its not just goggles protecting him. Remember that a MAX is basically a small Mech, and is therefore covered with reinforced armour all over. Even if this wasn't the case, a mech being killed with one hit just wouldn't make for good gameplay, especially when u'd just forked out all those points for the Cert.

Swaying crosshairs, such as in DOD, are a great idea, especially the way there is less of a sway when you are prone. There better be a prone key in PS...

[Flashingfish]

mistled I agree with pretty much everything you said. But I really hop ethat sniping is difficult, meaning the effects of sway, wind etc. should be included.

And no, there is no prone position in ps.

[Coliostro]

I agree with Mistled. I don't think there should be wind though..mostly because i believe it would be too difficult to put in and would make it longer before the game came out


Also, and the most unfortunate thing of all, there really will never be an end to the sniper debate. The snipers will always think they're under powered and the sniped will always think those snipers are over powered...that's just the way of the world. The grass is always greener (unless your neighbors don't water their lawn)

[Unknown]

On the shot in the Heart vs Finger debate, if you think about it, the infantry have armor and I'm sure its very thick protecting the chest, wheras a finger or hand can't have too much armor cause it has to be able to handle weaponry. So getting your finger shot off would probably hurt more than gettin shot in your body armor . Plus you might bleed alot and you'd become weaker because of it. It makes sense that headshots hurt the most cause it has less armor, especially in the face where there's no armor/helmet.

[�io]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
I know this is a stupid thing to say here, and I fully expect to get ripped for it, but here goes. Two things.

One.... There shouldn't be any semi-auto sniper rifles. I don't know if there are in this game or not, but there shouldn't be any in any game. All they do is promote wannabe sniping. If you don't hit your target on the first try, you should be moving location so he doesn't kill you. And if you CAN'T hit your target on the first try, put away the sniper rifle and get a machine gun like everyone else. Bolt action single shot rifles are the only way to do it. Sniping should be difficult. And it should be difficult for the following reason....

Two.... one shot should be able to kill anyone. Don't get me wrong here. When I say one shot, I mean one shot between the eyes. None of this "I hit your leg, so you should die" bullshit. I'll even concede that a shot to the back of the head on a max could be deflected enough to require a second shot. But there isn't a pair of goggles in this universe that can withstand a sniper bullet and still be transparent enough to see through. If you get shot in the face, that should be it.

There's a reason snipers are feared in battle. A reason that people hide when they know snipers are around. A reason why they are the most hated and most loved men on the battlefield (depending on who's getting shot at and whose ass is being covered of course). And I'll tell you what. Four hit kills isn't that reason.

Flame on.

mistled
One Shot. One Kill.

Very well said!

However being a possible sniper in the future (and one who does not want to be a 1 man army) i would add 2 little things to your description.

1- On a Med armor it should not be 1 headshot for a kill, more like 2 headshots. On a MAX if you hit anything but the face it should do squat, if you do hit the face i would say about 15%, this means you have to hit the face (very small target) about 7 times without getting killed, not a very easy task.

2-Dunno if you planned it or not but i would hope for sway in the first seconds of aiming. This means you can't run, shoot, run, shoot, you have to stop, kneel (less sway if crouched) aim, wait a bit then fire, then either you get up and run or you stay crouched, aim again and fire. Between shots it should take a good 3-5secs before sway goes down enough to aim good.

All that would make the sniper indeed a worthy foe but only if skilled and you know how to aim good. I love sniping but only if it's realistic, otherwise i guess i'll hop in a tank like the rest.

[Warborn]

Very well said!

However being a possible sniper in the future (and one who does not want to be a 1 man army) i would add 2 little things to your description.

1- On a Med armor it should not be 1 headshot for a kill, more like 2 headshots. On a MAX if you hit anything but the face it should do squat, if you do hit the face i would say about 15%, this means you have to hit the face (very small target) about 7 times without getting killed, not a very easy task.

2-Dunno if you planned it or not but i would hope for sway in the first seconds of aiming. This means you can't run, shoot, run, shoot, you have to stop, kneel (less sway if crouched) aim, wait a bit then fire, then either you get up and run or you stay crouched, aim again and fire. Between shots it should take a good 3-5secs before sway goes down enough to aim good.

All that would make the sniper indeed a worthy foe but only if skilled and you know how to aim good. I love sniping but only if it's realistic, otherwise i guess i'll hop in a tank like the rest.

Assuming "medium" armor is Agile armor, these are very good points, and I agree completely.