My new oppinion on the lasher: I love it! - Page 2

WritheNC · 2003-07-23, 10:59 PM

I am not saying that the lasher is not over powered, don't get me wrong. That thing is way to powerful and should still be nerfed. I was just saying that I enjoyed a little challenge for a change. Unfortunately, now the vanu have no real challenge in the game. Saying the lasher is not overpowered is arrogant. For that matter, the JH is also overpowered. I still think they should all be brought down to MCG level.

I can live with that.

Oh and the Lasher is now the king of indoors, usurping the Jackhammer in *LARGE SCALE COMBAT SITUATIONS*(that's important). If you don't think so, consider this:

Last night the NC had SE Gunuku Watch Tower and were defending it from the Vanu. The VS were quickly pushing us back into the tower, and soon they were coming through both doors and pushing towards the cc and spawn.

With 2 VS shooting lashers down the stairwell(there's usually more though) to the spawn, they can dominate an entire squad of NC. The first couple of NC take lasher orbs. The ones that don't get hit directly get "lashed" and still take damage.

That's the hard part about the balance of the lasher. When a jackhammer is fired, how many people can you hit with one shot? 2? Maybe 3? If you hit 2 or 3, the damage sucks. If a Lasher orb goes down a flight of stairs, passing 4 NC/TR but doesn't hit any of them, they still take damage. All of them. JH and MCG shells stop at the first person they touch. The lasher can rake through everybody. And if you want to shoot back up from the bottom of a flight of stairs with a JH, you won't win. Half the time you can't even see with all the big glowing disco balls between you and your target. By the time you get close, you're already dead. I'm sure TR is having just as much fun.

Its not impossible, but its hard as hell. The only way I kill Lasher wielders now is either:

1. Catch them unaware or looting.
2. They're shooting at another person.
3. Bait them into firing all 20 orbs, and if you're still alive(since you get lashed even if you're hiding behind a wall or tree), run out and take them out before they can reload.
4. Edit: #4 is the straight up gunfight, toe-to-toe match. Of course, with a bigger range I'm half dead so I can't miss when I'm in ideal JH kill range.

basically since the patch theyve been getting gang banged. hell last night on cyssor the TR had some sort of truce with the Vanu.

Grats. The game is based around a 3 way war. If you were on NC and pulled that crap I'd kill you. Well ok, I wouldn't because then you'd be even more tempted to truce just to spite me, and it would start a vicious cycle!

Truce = teh suck!

Arakiel · 2003-07-23, 11:44 PM

Hi. I hate the lasher. It's overpowered.

Here, let me tell you my side of a relatively irrelevant situation that probably never occured. Of course, neither you or me can prove this, so you'll have to accept it as fact. I can also quote numerous sources of massive veracity, like "some guy" and "my outfit" to introduce other situations that may have occured, that are probably in some way vaguely related to my argument. I never, ever exaggerate.

Also, I don't want to talk about things like clip size or actual damage per second, since I much prefer just saying it's overpowered and not really explaining why I feel that way. Honestly, I just don't like dying. Dying is for barneys (lol rofl omg this never gets old lolroflf) and I am above that "respawning" crap.

On a side note, everyone knows that both TR and NC are massively underpowered now. The jackhammer obviously became less effective in this last patch, and everyone knows that TR having the best MAXes/AV means nothing. The game is dominated by the lasher now and you can't walk 10 feet without being lashed.

Nerf it.

Kikinchikin · 2003-07-23, 11:50 PM

K dont flame me, but lasher went from stinko to incredible insta kill machine of horror. NUmerous occasions of BS cuz of this things overpowering. I'll cite a few xamples

1. I sneak up to point blank in reinforced with MCG on an agile with a lasher. I open up he spins fires 5 orbs in 1 second- me dead
2. I spawn into a camped room ( i know i know) 1 sfecond- me dead- 2 orbs or so
3. This one worked in my favor but still. I'm only person in base, i loot a n00bsher so i run out of spawn room and immmediately see 4 vanu walking down hallway toward me. I open up with lasher fire 8 shots kills the first two i take minimal damage. I sneak behind wall, fire 5 more shots, third one dies, then i reload, strafe fire and 4th dies. I wind up with half health and half armor.

point is vanu griped cuz they were underpowered. I'll agree the early vanu were underpowered, middile vanu were fine. IE When pulsar was good, magmower was always good, lancer pwnz and lasher was reasonable er kinda bad. Now vanu have a good AV, excellent MA, incredible HA, xcellent tank and THE BEST PISTOL IN THE GAME!

Spider · 2003-07-24, 12:04 AM

This is the jackhammer debate all over again... see people are arguing about it being overpowered because their on the other side of the canon (the receiving part)

I have been on both in the last few days... sure it seems like it's easy... When I was playing TR on markov I totaly got owned and it frustrated me.. but thats it.. I admit I suck as a grunt eh. I could still bring down 3 to 4 lasher guys before getting killed... at long range the damned thing is unusable. Heck even at med range...

On the giving side it's more tough then you think shooting that damn POS sure it's strong.. but that's if you actually get to hit the guy..

Get a clue before posting because you were on the receiving end and were getting killed doesnt mean its overpowered...

It was the same for the jackhammer it's strong but it's not godly and the MCG is good now too. What you people want is egotestical you want your weapons to rock so you can insta kill everyone with no challenge and you want our weapons to suck... I do agree the lasher is strong at short range but a MCG user that's good can take the guy out before he gets to him heck NC can do the same too..

ZionsFire · 2003-07-24, 01:05 AM

spider if we are behind a tree reloading that lasher shoots its pretty disco orbs and we still take damage if thats not overpowered i dunno what is.

PeregineDive · 2003-07-24, 01:31 AM

There are a couple other weapons that can deal damage behind cover. Most noteably the Plasma Thumper 'nades! Its fun as hell to use - I don't use Lasher either b/c I believe it is overpowered. I really love my Special Assault tho!

Got my thumper and Deci in hand, ready to rock and roll! Thumper, same as Lasher is useful in crowded places

Especially towers, you can bounce those babies around corners - can't say that for the lasher now can ya?

Remember kids - you are not safe behind trees

-PD

Cirkusphreak · 2003-07-24, 01:32 AM

One of the main problems that is in direct reflection of the Lasher upgrade isn't so much the weapon itself, but the amount of people using it. The Vanu have needed a tweak in their equipment for a long time coming, this is widely known. Especially by the Vanu. They've always had the top spot in the "Empire Need
category. Now they've gotten their upgrade an are now able to compete with NC/TR forces. To the majority of people on the receiving end of these devices now, it's an outrage. The Vanu went from whipping boys and moving targets to a determined and formidable enemy. Now the 3-way war is actually more 3-way instead of two big kids bullying a smaller one. Or so you'd think. At the announcement of this inprovement, hordes of so-called 'loyal' NC and TR soldiers shifted their sights on what could be an easier way to rack up kill points and possibly make themselves standout because they can now seemingly destroy their former comrades with ease. The lure of 'being on a winning team' was too great and they've all heeded the call and switched alliances. To me, this was more unsettling than the weapon upgrades themselves. Now I have doubt in my teammates, constantly wondering if the same person i'm laying down cover fire for, will be the same one i'll be firing at tomorrow while they charge forward with their new lasher. If the need to use the lasher was so important, couldn't they play as vanu on another server like most people? Apparently no. BR20/CR5 players quickly cashed in their characters and the time spent building them up,(I realize it doesn't take an incredible amount of time doing so but still..)and began to create a new VS soldier and get the HA cert as fast as possible. I had thought from the outset that PS would be less about kills and more about teamwork, loyalty to your team. I guess I'm mistaken. To those that have left your empire because of the HA increase, I hope you stay on your new team. Those who remain fighting for the NC and the TR all view you as traitors. Laugh at this if you will but I know its true. Whether or not this is openly admitted. And to the Vanu who weathered the storm of being underpowered and undermanned, congrats to you, but forever be wary of your 'new' recruits. They left the other teams for your weapon, and what's to say they won't do it again at another patch?

--Liberty or Death!

SandTrout · 2003-07-24, 01:34 AM

The lasher would have been fine if they had only increased the area of the lashes and not the RoF too. I'm dieing to the lasher in about 1.5 seconds at medium range without ever takeing a direct hit.

I would also like to point out something that has sliped past most people. Lasher spam is extreamly hard to dodge. Now you might ask, "Why is it hard to dodge if it's the slowest projectile in the game?" It is because you dont just have to dodge 1 shot, but instead to have to dodge 1 shot and an area effect that does 1/3 the damage (still signifigant) that follows 1/2 second after the initial shot. This area has been increased in the last patch and it is nearly imposible to make it through lasher spam with anything above 1/3 health, and unfortunately , spam is all that the vanu do with it any more now that the ROF has been increased.

ZionsFire · 2003-07-24, 01:37 AM

I have been loyal to the NC and still am.

"Viva La Resistance Lives On"

Katanaboy · 2003-07-24, 02:01 AM

To circus: thank you for not calling all Vanu n00bs, as i, among with others, joined with the vanu from the start. I liked the challenge, and was willing to endure the weaknesses they had, but i am now frustrated by our sudden population increase (and the NC's subsequent decrease) because people wanted to join the team with "teh uber l337 powerful weapons"

I truly am disappointed with how the devs saw the problem and "fixed" it. The community begged, requested, downright whined to the devs that they wanted faster projectile speeds, but instead they increased the RoF and damage, and gave it lash. I was fine with the damage it did before, and its RoF, but i wanted the projectiles to actually reach the target before i fell asleep. I didnt mind about lash either, though since it is called the lasher, one would expect it to lash.

SumYungGui · 2003-07-24, 03:06 AM

I seem to be having a lapse in memory. can someone remind me what the DSP and Time To Kill are of the jackhammer?

yeah, thought so.

blusteel · 2003-07-24, 03:09 AM

i haven't tried the new lasher yet but i'm hearing good things about it. as for all of this whining about vs is overpowered now and it's not fair, i think it's bull. before now the vs has been the weakest of the 3 empires and now that we start to get a little power all the tr and nc people are pissed. what's up with that?

WritheNC · 2003-07-24, 03:21 AM

Hi. I hate the lasher. It's overpowered.

I don't think you should hate the lasher. I don't hate it as much as I get frustrated by it. Maybe you should pool your ideas with everyone else that is having the same problem. Although I suggest you get Heavy Assault first so you can be taken more seriously about the issue.

Here, let me tell you my side of a relatively irrelevant situation that probably never occured.

You make it sound like assaults to capture towers happen EVERY DAY! Now who's being outrageous!?!?

Of course, neither you or me can prove this, so you'll have to accept it as fact. I can also quote numerous sources of massive veracity, like "some guy" and "my outfit" to introduce other situations that may have occured, that are probably in some way vaguely related to my argument.

Its true the NC lost that tower, and it really happened. Yes, I know, claims to violent disputes over towers in PS are often false, but this one really happened I tell you! However, the situation I cited as an example didn't really happen. It is rather an embarassing error in grammar that should have been omitted, as the example doesn't fit with the event. But the example *could* happen at any place where a stairwell might exist!

I never, ever exaggerate.

Never in a million years! But then again, you're either posting on the boards to:

A. Offer your opinion on the subject matter. Everyone views your opinion as an opinion, and may view it as exaggerated, or view it as played down. Regardless, you were on topic in some way or another.

B. Make satirical posts that mock other people. While even more useless than posting a flawed or biased opinion, it passes the time.

C. Post something positive(Perish the thought!)

D. Let the world know yuo quit PS OMG!!

Also, I don't want to talk about things like clip size or actual damage per second, since I much prefer just saying it's overpowered and not really explaining why I feel that way.

Ok I'll bite. Lasher has 20 rounds per magazine, fires 4 shots per second, each orb does 30 damage on contact(not positive), and can also "lash" for, from what I've read from numerous sources, somewhere in the range of 8-15(depends on who you ask. But since I am NEVER WRONG I know the real number, and will refuse to indulge all my lessers. Like Barneys. Yes, I will do that).

The JH has 16 rounds per magazine, fires slower than 4 shots per second, and can do 30 damage on contact if you're within 10m or so. For further ranges beyond 10m, it helps to have your crosshair centered upon the intended target if you plan on doing 30 damage or more.

Trying to maximize the damage done by the JH beyond point blank range actually requires aiming, much to the disbelief of others. The lasher doesn't require as much aim, but it does require anticipation and being able to guess your opponents next move; or, if you're quick with aim, you can trap them between orbs to hinder movement, and then hit them.

This places them fairly equal in one on one situations and the open field. It just gets really ugly on the opposite side of a lasher in close quarters during medium to large scale battles; quite uglier than being on the opposite side of a JH when many people are involved.

That's why I feel that way, but that would hardly appease anyone, had they asked for it; even if the question was rhetorical.

Honestly, I just don't like dying.

We have more in common than anyone had previously thought!

Dying is for barneys (lol rofl omg this never gets old lolroflf) and I am above that "respawning" crap.

You lost me there. I submit to your superior intellect. Except the stuff in parentheses, in which case I concur.

On a side note, everyone knows that both TR and NC are massively underpowered now.

I'm sorry you feel that way, and I disagree. They're not massively underpowered, but they are lacking something right now, which I believe to be the inability to keep even ground with Lashers in CQB. Of course we'll have to wait and see for a few weeks if, in actuality, it really is just the population or lack of tactics by the TR/NC.

The jackhammer obviously became less effective in this last patch

I do believe so. Its significantly more difficult to close with someone with a lasher, and when you finally do you're very likely more wounded than he/she is. Its effectiveness is diminished in the worst way possible: unable to get close with a short range weapon. If you think you can do better I'll meet you by a warpgate and we'll switch weapons and give it a shot.

and everyone knows that TR having the best MAXes/AV means nothing.

It doesn't mean "nothing," but there is a substantial difference between a wait period for a MAX and not having to wait for HA. As for the Striker, it is very good, but is really confined more to a AV vs. Armor argument. Unless you cite proof or examples. But you didn't either, just like me.

The game is dominated by the lasher now and you can't walk 10 feet without being lashed.

I believe you said the same thing about the Jackhammer. You must have been sarcastic back then too.

Nerf it.

Nerf Arakiel too.

EDIT: P.S. I still

you Arakiel, despite our differences.

Arakiel · 2003-07-24, 05:39 AM

You were aware I was being sarcastic, right? Did I actually need to indicate that? Are you aware that my post wasn't even aimed at you and was a fairly generic crosspost from my clan forums? Did I hit a sore spot, being that I was oddly correct?

The sweeping majority of "nerf the lasher!" threads are anecdotal and thus completely irrelevant. Compile me some hard data and give things a week to settle down post-patch and then you might have a good case.

I have expounded my reasons before many, many times as for why the JH is/was overpowered, so my only new sentiments for the anti-lasher argument from NC are, well, now it's your turn to be the bitch. Sorry.

TR I'll listen to, since the MCG (while overpowered in its own right - every HA is, you'll notice the only HA nerf I called for was a nerf to *all* HA) isn't quite as obnoxious as the JH. However, hearing NC whine in such numbers after they've had the monopoly on decent HA since last beta is amusing to say the least.

r3d · 2003-07-24, 05:56 AM

Wtf is going on?
the nc CANNOT complain about the lasher. Wtf is wrong with you guys? Hundreds of people bitched about the jackhammer when it "overpowered" well you know what guys? Thats what the jackhammer was ment to do, OWN INDOORS, IT A SHOTGUN YOU IDIOT. Now all the nc pricks are bitching cause the lasher is par with the master of spam killing(jackhammer)? That my friends,makes no sence. Maybe if the nc got some skill besides "EVERYONE GRAB A JACKHAMMER AND LETS GO TAKE GUNUKU" and just dident shoot wherever to kill someone indoors. Cause that all you really had to do right, you see someone in a hall. you shoot a few times at the celing, the ground, wherever, and you died. Well guess what guys? Looks like VS can do that too. If you dont like it, fuck off. Maybe if the nc really looked at the equipment they have, and USED IT, they'de relilized how good they are. The vanguard pretty much owns, oh boy like the "magmower" is any good, maybe if you fuckheads on the nc learned how to pickup something besides a jackhammer, like some AV for example, oh wait. your AV owns too! Learn how to use a pheonix instead of bitching about how the lancer owns you. You get to control the thing goddamnit. If the lancer misses, aww shit. fire another shot ! if the pheonix is off course, well shit, lets adjust that with the rocket we can move in mid air anyways !
And you know whats the really funny part? How TR got upgraded. They were kicking ass anyways. Now watch them own you with the mcgs. TR is the most balanced empire in the whole game. Like I said before, nc cannot bitch now that VS is par with your weapons.

EDIT: Oh yeah, im not goina check this thread anymore, cause I know you dumbasses will find some way to come up with a completly illogial response to any/all of this. Have fun aruging with noone.