Welcome to vehicleside - Page 2

Happy lil Elf · 2003-09-14, 06:14 PM

1. It wasn't a nerf it was a fix, and a needed one at that. As a Lightning pilot I could be hit by a Deci and literally have no chance to flee before the second one would hit me. The Pounder aside I also don't see it being a big issue with the ability to kill MAXs.

2. In my opinion the rearm pads/terminals are fine. On most continents (or maybe all, I forget) there is only one dropship center. That means only one side is going to have them. It also doesn't repair vehicles very fast. It's actually seems faster to get out and use a glue gun form what I've seen. It also doesn't help offense very much. It does give an advantage for defense but I'm more than ok with that. I've always thought there wasn't enough advantage given to defenders. And, again, you only get that advantage only if you have the dropship center for the continent you're on.

3. Why increase the Lib and Reaver timers? I have yet to see any problem with Liberators and reavers are definately not the threat they once were, especially if you have a couple people who are crusing around in a Skyguard. This just doesn't seem to be related to your main issues at all. It seems you're more concerned about the Deci fix and the running over of ground troops, neither of which are issues that affect air vehicles much.

4. Your AV mine idea I would have absolutely no problem with, in fact in your entire post I think it's the only thing I think I can totally agree with you on. As long as it is visible at all times I think it'd be a great idea.

5. Making all AV weapons common pool would certainly fix the balance issues, but I'd hate to see it happen. From my rather extensive experience as a Mosq, Lightning and Vanguard pilot there seems to be only a few issues with AV weaponry that hopefully will be addressed in the upcoming balance sweep. I won't go into them here because AV balance isn't the main issue but if you want to discuss them in another thread I'm all for it.

6. Most things lighter than a tank do slow down when they hit something. Hell running someone over in a harraser can be considered suicide in many cases. Even my Lightning loses a decent chuck of speed if I hit someone and there there's always the odd case where you try to the them over and end up flipping instead

. I do however see many people using AMSs as battering rams and I agree it's kind of stupid, but screwiing with all vehicles seems a poor fix for that.

7. The Magrider being louder would be nice I do agree, but honestly it's not going to help with it mowing people down, especially if the driver is on a moderate to bad connection (300+ ping). Until data transfer on the web is nearly instantaneous or they change the hit detection to not be client-side Magriders will always be the bane of ground troops along with, to a lesser degree of course, the other Medium tanks and AMSs.

Also the Magrider most definately can not spin on a dime, not unless it's at a full stop in which case running people over isn't an issue (obviously

). It's strafing ability is also overrated. It doesn't really strafe all that fast. That said neither of those really matter when you're talking about it's ability to run people down. It isn't all that hard to line up infantry for any vehicle, especially if they don't see you coming.

8. Why should ejecting from an aircraft should take 3 seconds? In most cases this would totally nullify the usefullness of the ability to eject. Considering how low vehicles in PS fly if it took 3 full seconds to eject once you lose control there's almost no way you'd have a chance to eject before impact. Not only that but what problem this would be addressing?

9. I really don't see why only Standard armor should be able to fly air vehicles. I guess in this case as well I have to ask what problem would this be addressing?'

In closing I'm going to have to say I disagree with you on almost everything you've said, Doppler. It just seems to me the majority of the changes you suggested don't address any major problems with the game that I've seen or experienced. I honestly don't think a lone troop should have a very good chance of defeating any vehicle Lighting or bigger without some real thought going into his/her tactics. Mostly because vehicles are harder to get than any infantry weapon. I do think that 2-3 people should be able to engage vehicles without too much trouble assuming they have the correct certifications but I don't see a huge problem with that as it is.

Setari · 2003-09-14, 08:16 PM

This thread is turnin into the political debate forum if ya think about it...so many different arguments...my eyes hurt :P

noxious · 2003-09-14, 08:53 PM

Conversation flows, espically online where hundreds of different opinions can be voiced. You pretty much have to expect a thread to change. A lot of things are worth being said but in a new thread would be totally out of context (if that's even possible

).

shadowseed · 2003-09-15, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Doppler
Return the Decimator to normal, this was the grunts (especialy the NC grunt) only answer to MAX's and other hard targets.

Hell yeah.

Increase the reaver and liberator timers to 10 mins. Which is cut in half if you have a dropship center.

Errr.. why ?, i thought your problem was being run over ?. Would it make more sence to keep it the same... I know a lot more people are using aircraft. But then again, a lot more people use anti-air...

Remove the autorepair ability of dropship centers and especialy airtowers. Find a difrent ability (maybe a sort of in continent hart perhaps?). Give the ability for all vehicle drivers to make favorite inventory loadouts at all bases reguardless.

Hmm... im tempted to agree, as the moment you get a target lock on a reaver/moscito, it runs for the nearers repair-pad....

Implement a AV mine. Visible at all times, not set off by infantry. Two iis enough to take out a heavy tank.

Hmmm.. yes, we need something that can kill tanks a lot eaisier, but im thinking 4 mines to wipe out a H.tank

Make all AV weapons common pool.

No.... dont agree. But i do think the turrets need AV/AA locking rocklets, in a ALT-fire mode, dont have to be too powerful, just enough to make MAG's and AMS's think twice about lapping the base to mow down people...

Anything lighter then a tank (and the ams) should slow down whenever it hits someone, the heavier the armor, the bigger the slowdown.

A definate yes...

Make the magmower make noise. Self eplanatory. Also if you want to make it a hovercraft make it act like a hovercraft, they cant strafe or spin on a dime.

Naa.. dont agree. I hate the MagMowers, but i think they should be allowed to keep there abilitys. And hovercraft can spin and strafe.

Ejecting from an aircraft should take 3 seconds.

"What, like real aircraft!!!". Dont be silly. The whole point of an eject is to get out of your plane in an emergancy.

Pilots of aircraft other then the gal and lib should have to do so in standard armor.

errr... you mean not be allowed to pilot in agile armor. No dont agree there. I think its enough to stop people being allowed to pilot in H armor.

----------------------------------------------

A lot of good points, but i think you want to Nerf aircraft and vechcals too much that your swinging to the other end of the scale.

I DO agree that devs need to give grunts a better chance against Vechicals and aircraft, and they need to put a hinderance to all the joyrider type people runnign around, but i also maintain that ou should be able to use vechicals reliably.

nonentity · 2003-09-15, 07:08 AM

I was going to make a nice long post detailing why I disagree with nearly all your points, but Elf already said pretty much what I was going to say.

On the subject of vehicles running people over, just make the vehicles do less damage to people (say 25 health lost if hit at full speed). Having the vehicles take more damage would just be stupid (I have no wish to clip a guy when driving around and then explode).

And the AV mine is a good, but I'd suggest that each mine takes a 4x4 slot in the inventory (maybe with a 3x3 dispensor). Just because if it came out of an ACE, an infil could take out two tanks without having to even restock, which is silly.

NoSurrender · 2003-09-15, 08:08 AM

Phoenixs are a pain to use indoors. I used to play with sand and he can tell you im a expert with the phoenix. The phoenix is hard 2 kill something in doors because of how slow the reload time is. I can get one rocket off for sure but then getting a second is a near miracle. While with a Striker its just point lock fire run back fire run back fire and boom no more max.

Valcron · 2003-09-15, 09:17 AM

Doppler

Why not just come out and say "I suck in planetside, please make vehicles easier for me to kill."

Biggest crybaby post in the history of all posts. You make some of my crybaby posts look like fodder.

Nawchoz · 2003-09-16, 01:18 AM

I agree that something definatly needs to be done about vehicles running over footsoldiers with wreckless abandon. Has anyone ever seen a car hit a deer? The car usually sustains moderate damage itself, but the real supprise is when the deer winds up in the front seat, often killing the passengers. I suggest that the pilots of the lighter vehicles take sizeable physical damage when they run someone over. This will greatly cut down on the hit n runs, because as it stands, there is very little penalty for running someone over.

Another issue is the fact that in real life, you can dodge out of the way of a speeding car or whatever is barreling down your way. You can cover the width of even the widest vehicle in a heartbeat, yet in planetside, even as the grill of doom is barreling down on you, you can't seem to muster more than your usual plodding pace. Perhaps a quick dodge function that would take a chunk of your stamina but get you out of the way in time. That is, once they finally do away with client-side hit detection (cough) because we all love getting mashed by a tank that looks 20ft away.

Happy lil Elf · 2003-09-16, 09:28 AM

1. A car is not a futuristic combat vehicle. The issue at hand is not buggies or smaller vehicles running people down. It's Mediium tanks and AMSs being used as plows.

2. A "quick dodge" feature would not help. If the driver sees you going under his bumper on his screen, you die. Even though you just saw yourself jump out of the way, you still die.

Doppler · 2003-09-17, 05:07 PM

Pardon me for resurecting a decaying post but i cant stand to miss a chance to argue with Elf.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Happy lil' Elf
[B]1. It wasn't a nerf it was a fix, and a needed one at that. As a Lightning pilot I could be hit by a Deci and literally have no chance to flee before the second one would hit me. The Pounder aside I also don't see it being a big issue with the ability to kill MAXs.

First off, this is a problem with the lightning, not a problem with the the deci. I mean it just kills me personaly that a reaver can take signifigantly more damage then a lightning can. In fact other then the extra cert cost i see no reason to take lightning over reavers ever in the current state. Secondly if your moving at all the deci is almost guaranteed to miss. Anything standing still other then a med tank is most likely deserving to die.

2. In my opinion the rearm pads/terminals are fine. On most continents (or maybe all, I forget) there is only one dropship center. That means only one side is going to have them. It also doesn't repair vehicles very fast. It's actually seems faster to get out and use a glue gun form what I've seen. It also doesn't help offense very much. It does give an advantage for defense but I'm more than ok with that. I've always thought there wasn't enough advantage given to defenders. And, again, you only get that advantage only if you have the dropship center for the continent you're on.
I just dont think it's right that vehicle drivers need any more help. Lets face it usualy this will be utilized for air vehicles (with the exception of the favorites/reloading which i think should be at every base reguardless) I also question how much help this is to defenders as in a hot base battle can you afford to sit still long enough to be repaired.

3. Why increase the Lib and Reaver timers? I have yet to see any problem with Liberators and reavers are definately not the threat they once were, especially if you have a couple people who are crusing around in a Skyguard. This just doesn't seem to be related to your main issues at all. It seems you're more concerned about the Deci fix and the running over of ground troops, neither of which are issues that affect air vehicles much.

Why extend the timers? Well lets just chaulk it up to the fac that there is no guns vs butter in this system. So having someone be able to pump out a reaver, which requires a techplant and flies, at the same rate as a skyguard, which has less armor does not fly (big air doesnt count) and less firepower makes no military sense other then the fact that one can be driven in reinforced and the other does not.
4. Your AV mine idea I would have absolutely no problem with, in fact in your entire post I think it's the only thing I think I can totally agree with you on. As long as it is visible at all times I think it'd be a great idea.

5. Making all AV weapons common pool would certainly fix the balance issues, but I'd hate to see it happen. From my rather extensive experience as a Mosq, Lightning and Vanguard pilot there seems to be only a few issues with AV weaponry that hopefully will be addressed in the upcoming balance sweep. I won't go into them here because AV balance isn't the main issue but if you want to discuss them in another thread I'm all for it.

I wont go into it either other then to say I whould as a counter purposal like to see the striker get made a CP antivehicle weapon and the TR given some other form of goody.

6. Most things lighter than a tank do slow down when they hit something. Hell running someone over in a harraser can be considered suicide in many cases. Even my Lightning loses a decent chuck of speed if I hit someone and there there's always the odd case where you try to the them over and end up flipping instead

. I do however see many people using AMSs as battering rams and I agree it's kind of stupid, but screwiing with all vehicles seems a poor fix for that.

Cant say, when i hit people with skyguard or my deliverer i hardly ever see a slowdown and then i j can usualy accelrate fast enough it doesnt matter.

7. The Magrider being louder would be nice I do agree, but honestly it's not going to help with it mowing people down, especially if the driver is on a moderate to bad connection (300+ ping). Until data transfer on the web is nearly instantaneous or they change the hit detection to not be client-side Magriders will always be the bane of ground troops along with, to a lesser degree of course, the other Medium tanks and AMSs.

Whould anyone else like to go back to the day before the devs decided that all med tanks had to have the same armor class.
personaly i think it should go from low - high Mag Van Prowler. But thats just me.

Also the Magrider most definately can not spin on a dime, not unless it's at a full stop in which case running people over isn't an issue (obviously

). It's strafing ability is also overrated. It doesn't really strafe all that fast. That said neither of those really matter when you're talking about it's ability to run people down. It isn't all that hard to line up infantry for any vehicle, especially if they don't see you coming.

Their ability to run people over while strafing and out turn a lightning has always been m primary irritant but that's neither here nor there.

8. Why should ejecting from an aircraft should take 3 seconds? In most cases this would totally nullify the usefullness of the ability to eject. Considering how low vehicles in PS fly if it took 3 full seconds to eject once you lose control there's almost no way you'd have a chance to eject before impact. Not only that but what problem this would be addressing?

9. I really don't see why only Standard armor should be able to fly air vehicles. I guess in this case as well I have to ask what problem would this be addressing?'

Both of these fall into the same catagory. Personaly I've seen what personal effects/gear pilots of modern aircraft (especialy fighter aircraft) can take with them, and it's not much at all, i dont see why planetside should be all that difrent and am constantly irritated by if i manage to shoot someone down they just bail out.

Better question though, if i can bail out of any aircraft in the game so quick why can i not get out of an even slightly moving sunderer.

In closing I'm going to have to say I disagree with you on almost everything you've said, Doppler. It just seems to me the majority of the changes you suggested don't address any major problems with the game that I've seen or experienced. I honestly don't think a lone troop should have a very good chance of defeating any vehicle Lighting or bigger without some real thought going into his/her tactics. Mostly because vehicles are harder to get than any infantry weapon. I do think that 2-3 people should be able to engage vehicles without too much trouble assuming they have the correct certifications but I don't see a huge problem with that as it is.
I disagree with you here because i dont feel that vehicles are all that hard to get, especialy the advanced mobile plow. The fact of the matter is, it generaly will take 6 guys or the equivalent with enough time to take that many shots with SA or AV to kill a medium tank. This to me is unaceptable.

Doppler · 2003-09-17, 05:09 PM

The 3 second rule on ejection whould not apply to the galaxy as it's assumed that troops riding it in are ready to drop.

SandTrout · 2003-09-17, 07:28 PM

I dont see the purpose of a 3-second ejection either. Most people that bail get blown to hell by their plains anyways. Plus you can get ready to shoot the bastard when he lands if you're quick enough.

Happy lil Elf · 2003-09-17, 08:08 PM

Ugh, not digging through that post. Too lazy to separate statments right now, that and Spybot and adaware are done now so I can go back to Jedi Knight Academy....now if only the second mission would load

Searo · 2003-09-17, 08:29 PM

Aircraft eject in real life by detonating a bomb, ripping a hole in the plane, and shooting the pilot out at several Gs.
Three seconds is not required to get all this done.
Also, when you're laggy, you have to eject way before critical damage or you really DO have a three second delay. Trust me, I learned it the hard way.

How are you going to blow a hole in the top of a Sunderer and shoot a guy out through that? That's like, 5 inches of armor there.

Nerf Reaver armor? Well, I'm extremely laggy when flying a Reaver so I had to drop it (sniff) and I haven't flown since the patch. I died a lot, because of lag, because of inexperience, because of stupidity, etc...

The Mines are good, I say they are a rifle sized mine that are clearly visible, and take up a good inventory chunk, and take three to kill a Heavy Tank.

Common Pool AV? What's the point of seperate empires again?

Decimator could be boosted, don't know anything about that, never fired one, never use decimator attracting certs. Although if I'm driving my Lightning in a nice straight line sometimes people throw a few my way.

Bismarck · 2003-09-17, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by Doppler
Trout,

The problem with your analagy is planetside fails to take into account guns versus butter. Nor does it take into account maintenance and other functions that limit the application of vehicles.

For example for every one sortie flown a F-16 requires upwards of 100 manhours of maintenance.

My other problem with your analagy is that infantry in planetside lack the ways to deal with vehicles that real world troops do. Claymores, AV mines, artilery, airstrikes and advanced RPG's. (Do not use the fact that an RPG will not scartch an abrams, I know difrently, the iraqis just dont have enough of em and dont hav eht eproper training.)

Planetside really doesnt have enough ground in it to properly encompass a vehicle heavy war. Planetside thinks in kilometers, vehicle war thinks in 100 and 1k kilometer incriments.

No branch of the military has a unarmed vehicle designed to run people over. This is A) Unpractical B) Hard on your troops minds.

Hey Genius, the AMS ISNT DESIGNED TO RUN PEOPLE OVER. It's designed to be an Advanced Mobile Spawn and equip term. Its ability to run people over is just a side effect of its speed and armor, both necessary in a very important vehicle with no offensive or defnesive abilities.

BTW: Its a freaking common pool vehicle that costs 2 points. Just buy your own

Yoda says: "shut up the fuck, you must"