BFRs Revisited

[2coolforu]

10 agiles to kill one solo man BFR, requiring complex tactics and a lot more skill than that BFR pilot did.

In Planetside an MBT can be taken about by a one man reaver, a one man reaver can be taken out by single man AA. Everything has a playerbalance, the amount of teamwork and players something requires is balanced by what it can add to the combat cycle. Sure you could take down a BFR in no time with 10 agiles with decis, however if the pilot jumped out or if the other BFR's nearby joined in you were screwed.

If you played in the days of the inbalanced release you would know that all you saw were BFR's, I went out of a door and saw an army of 15 BFR's just sat there camping the base. They required one man to use and fit every role, there was no need to bring in a skyguard for AA, a sunderer for troop transport to bring infantry to take ground, a reaver for antitank, all you needed was Biffers. As a result without any organisation for a BFR raid everything just turned to BFR's. For no teamwork you got a one man army machine, they were the definition of 'solo zergling retard' - they just gave that solo zergling killwhore-one-man-army a true 'one man army'. He was pretty much immune to all damage if he was even marginally intelligent and you had no chance of killing an amassed 'zergling' army of BFR's. The point is those BFR's had no organisation, people just pulled them and zerged them and since they were anti-everything there was just no better counter or solution so that's all the game devolved to. Sure you could spam 40 reavers like many outfits did but are you seriously going to have that 24/7? Is that efficient at all? Once you start doing that after the first BFR sees you everyone will just switch to AA and you are massacred, simply by an reaction of instinct your days of organisation and teamwork are trumped by a zerg hivemind. This is the very reason the game died, people got sick of having to destroy the BFR Zerg by doing these mass organised raids, it just tired people out and playing normally wasn't possible since the BFR zerg ruled absolute. When people got fed up of doing 20 Reaver zerg -> kill BFR -> Pwned by AA spam -> Infantry Bailure horde -> Jammer BFR -> Kill 1 -> AI Spam -> Die they just got fed up and unsubbed.

I know how to kill BFR's, I was there for the BFR testing, I was there when Planetside launched and I was there when Planetside died. I even did my best to kill BFR's when they were released but after every battle just resulting to watching 30 BFR's march around your base stomping on things I got fed up. It's not a matter of skill, noone is terrible at the game nor skilled if you take a BFR down with 10 guys and a jammer nade hell thats what I did along with reaver hordes. It isn't a fair Effort/Reward balance though, that guy in that BFR put in barely any effort and if he's half decent he'll probably get a few kills at least - especially if he is a gunner. Or if he isn't a total muppet he won't be in a situation where 10 guys can easily get to him, even then you couldn't do anything against the massive zergs of biffers that plagued Planetside before they were nerfed - even then the overpoweredness isn't the only problem, sure it made them worse but they are still a problem now because as I said, they are far too multirole and just overwrite a load of roles that exist already in the game and do them better and with more versatility, it's just when they were insanely OP'd before the patch they merely did those roles even better than they do now.


Sure you could go 10 agiles but are you telling me that would work against the huge amassed armies of 20-30 BFR's that would just camp the hills near the base? You wouldn't get within 10 feet of the nearest one. The BFR's all got 3 variants each (solo,flying,gunner) so unless they were an absolute retard they should never be without a BFR. If you want awesome mechs then go play mechwarrior were they can be badass. They are pretty awesome machines its just planetside is a game of balance, teamwork and mutual fun, seeing people stomp around in their 1-man-pwnwagons isn't mutual fun or teamwork.

As for the BFR limit idea, I've countered that before. Why does a certain 2 people have access to this one man pwn machine that requires a huge combined effort to take down yet no serious effort to run/set up? It's not fair on the other players just so one guy can feel like the god of planetside for an hour. Also what happens if some complete muppet pulls one, then a decent player can't use it and you get some moron who just marches it into nowhere and wastes it putting your Empire at a huge loss because the other team has this giant instapwn mech and you lost yours due to one Troll/Griefer/Moronic Player.

[Tikuto]

"BFR Zerg"

Ok. SOE can prevent that. Each continent, simualtaneously accessible to all Empires as an Empire announcement says:

• "The enemy has acquired a BFR. We will react accordingly by authorizing our own BFR (1)"

or

• "Our <empire> has developed and authorized a BFR (1). The enemy is likely to respond."

Fixed. Controlled. No BFR zerg. 3 super-powers in the field (1 each Empire) & when detected becomes permenently visible on Map (M).
Continent-wide all-Empire recharge timer of #hrs.




Whilst PlanetSide:1 can be a repetative sequence of events, smudging that sequence by placing a Empire-wide challenge can stimulate alot of fun. When you don't always see a Dragon in the sky, some days later you see it swoop and set you aflame.

[NCLynx]

Why does it seem this entire thread is devolving into why or why not BFRs should be in the game, and if so how to make them so that people don't hate them.

If they add in BFRs they are guaranteeing themselves less subscribers. Even IF they could pull off adding in BFRs people have already experienced what was done the first time around, I'd be hesitant to give SoE a chance if that happened as well.

Either way they've already stated that BFRs will not be in the game. We had an amazing time playing PS before they were released and I will continue to do so in PS:N.

On another note though...I can't wait to hop in that new galaxy...

[Hamma]

Created new BFR thread from the remnants of the Vanguard discussion

Discuss away!

[Chaotic Cow]

It's unfortunate how horrible BFRs were in PS which pretty much set their fate in PS:Next.

[DviddLeff]

BFRs could have been great, they could have enhanced the battlefield and drawn in legions of mechwarrior fans.

But we all know what actually happened.

They could have worked in the games play scheme by one main difference; make them require 3-4 crew, one pilot and 2 or three gunners. This single change would mean that you see far less of them as then its not directly giving kills to the driver, so they will only pull them when there is a serious outdoor battle going on.

Also make the pilot choose from EITHER the shield, (severely nerfed) flight pack or the roof gun. This makes them choose from speed, defence or firepower, giving each one a set role to play.

[Raymac]

I actually liked the concept of the BFR, but the implementation was all fail. 1 single BFR would totally change the battlefield, let alone having more than 1. Sure, if you focus fired properly, you could deal with them, but their shields recharged to quickly they would be right back on the front lines.

Plus the flight varients were insane. They were death dealers and could escape anything. I really hated those things.

Having said that, like anything in PS, there were ways to handle them. I was usually in my reaver, so I enjoyed trying to solo the BFRs. Mostly I'd only get kills if they were already damaged and were running back to repair. If they were full health, the most I could really do by myself was harrass them so they would focus on trying to take me out and not shoot at my army.

There are videos of people with Agile armor soloing BFRs. I tried it myself and the tactic was effective, I just wasn't good enough to pull it off very often.

Basically, I wouldn't mind BFRs if they were balanced right, essentially making them a kind of MBT. However, since there are soooo many players that absolutely hate them, lets just keep them out of PSN.

[2coolforu]

As I have said before, and before that. If you put a large population limit on a unit in return for making it WTFPWN then how do you decide who uses it? And how is it fair on the rest of the players that this one guy gets an awesome machine of doom that doesn't require any effort what so ever?

What if your awesome doom machine is in the hands of a noob/griefer/troll who decides to go fight his own personal war with it and gets killed/doesn't add anything to the battle.

As for just bringing in BFR's? They didn't add anything to the game, I've already made my points and arguments so just re-read my posts but it's along the lines of

a) They fill far too many roles, this was their gimmick and their downfall - you could switch them out/change their gear but this just made them too versatile and negated the value of anything else
b) They gave the zerg a one-man vehicle that was better than anything else
c) Balancing them into a tank role is not needed -> that's why the tank is there. Why add something on top, if aint broke don't fix it, just make the tank beefier if you like a more powerful heavy vehicle
d) They have a lot of stigma, alot of people left the game because of (in fact, a majority of people left the game because of them) and I know people who left because of them. Either directly at the inbalance, or indirectly because of how much they changed the core game and battles. If you put them in PS-Next that's a lot of bad reputation and bad memories you are putting in. Start from fresh, this is our chance. They couldn't remove them from PS-1 because they had advertised them etc and it brought up a load of legal issues.

[Chaotic Cow]

Maybe have BFRs only available to Outfits with a certain amount of points or something.

[Furret]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I actually liked the concept of the BFR, but the implementation was all fail. 1 single BFR would totally change the battlefield, let alone having more than 1. Sure, if you focus fired properly, you could deal with them, but their shields recharged to quickly they would be right back on the front lines.

Basically, I wouldn't mind BFRs if they were balanced right, essentially making them a kind of MBT. However, since there are soooo many players that absolutely hate them, lets just keep them out of PSN.

This is pretty much how I feel.

I think it would be a great addition to the game, but they absolutely can't screw it up.

[Sifer2]

Originally Posted by Chaotic Cow

Maybe have BFRs only available to Outfits with a certain amount of points or something.

Yup when I originally said they should be rare that is what I had in mind guess I should have clarified. I think it is something an Outfit should have to farm for an then pick an choose an ideal time to use it to turn the tide of a battle. I also like the idea above about requiring a 4 man crew.

I think done right it could add some fun an spice to the game by being an interesting target to take down. I think repair options should definitely be limited though. It should definitely die not be able to live for hours. Large health pool an no way to repair. An a weaker recharging shield or something dunno.

That being said its clear a lot of people don't like them because of what they were. So it may be better to just not even bother trying to make them work. Which is what it sounds like SOE has done in Next.

[Tikuto]

Rarity of super-powerful BFRs equally challenged by one of each other Empire's BFR - a control system applied to create this rarity and equality. What is left is the player's zone-wide communication, command and navigation of this BFR. "Outfit BFRs" suggests against this fairness. Why?


When an Outfit is to be responsible for piloting it, it may unnescessarily restrict access. It shouldn't restrict your Empire somehow just because of that. I would rather here, still, be a continental announcement triggering all Empire's single BFR and designate a suitable driver (based on stats and dice-roll gamble). Outfit BFRs also suggest against other Empire's Outfits too because they may not be ready for one! This could lead to uncontrolled and unequalled super-powers in the field, which is what happens in PS:1 (Amounts of BFR (ratio 3:5:9) at any time).
So, an Outfit being responsible for a BFR should only be an Outfit publicity stunt somehow, an advertsement or bragging right - Outfit celebrity.

As for repairing a BFR I don't see why not. Only way to repair would probably be to use a Lodestar or a facility service, maybe, thus having to be more dependant in the field. All field engineers could do is ... nothing, really. Work on BFR escorts around the BFR, I guess.



One orbital strike to destroy a slow-moving ground-only BFR (no aerial BFRs for PS:2) and its surrounding escorts. Simple. Same for Orbital Strikes, too, there was no control system except a recharge timer. You could blast 10 multiple Orbital Strikes and that spoiled the use of it for me.

[Chaotic Cow]

Aerial BFRs are a joke anyways. Gunner variant was more fun.

[Sifer2]

Well Tikuto the reason I think Outfit based BFR's would be the way to go is to address what other people brought up in thread. If BFR's are rare how do you determine who gets the honor of piloting one? How is fair for one guy to win a dice roll an get to drive the solo repairable pwnmobile for hours racking up the kills? Or worse what if it gives it to in an idiot who gets it killed immediately gimping your empire?

Outfit BFR's solves all of that. The Outfit works to earn one an then they pick an choose when they want to use it giving it to their own skilled drivers. Probably in most cases to turn the tide of a major battle. Too valuable to waste kill farming with not being able to repair. That's my personal vision of them anyway.

[Sirisian]

I never really got why people hated BFRs. I thought they were really fun. I usually used the flying one with VS lasers. It was so fun picking people off with those things.

Also killing them was so fun. My friend and I used to use vultures and dive bomb them for easy kills. Or take turns and solo them with decimators or mines while cloaking. I guess when they were first released they were over powered, but anything in the game that's added needs to be balanced.

Though I do agree they took away from the whole teamwork concept since you only needed one person and not two like a tank or something.