the Phoenix and its flaw - Page 2

Knightwyvern · 2011-02-17, 06:46 PM

I used to play NC, though more recently I've been playing TR. I've never really used HA but I'd have to say as an observer, that the jackhammer is pretty ridiculous. I agree that the MCG and lasher can be annoying, but all too often do you turn a corner to be one shotted by a JH. There is something uniquely aggravating about fighting an enemy with the capability to kill you with such immediacy.

Raymac · 2011-02-17, 06:48 PM

I hate these balance discussions, because I like all the AV weapons. The only 1 I'm not a big fan of is the Striker because of that incredibly annoying beeping noise that will just not let up.

Being NC, I obviously used the Phoenix alot. I just resubbed the other day and it looks like the Phoenix was nerfed pretty hard. It used to take 3 shots to kill a max, which I thought was perfect. 1st shot to get their attention, 2nd shot to make them run, the the 3rd shot would hit or miss depending on how good they were at getting away. Now, 3 solid shots still don't kill a max. Plus, it looks like they even nerfed how much you could steer the round the further out it goes.

I still need to play with it some more, but the current state of the Phoenix was a little disappointing from what I remember.

klu · 2011-02-17, 06:49 PM

i always felt sorry for those poor newcons killing me in a stairwell from half way across the soi؟ would you be willing to trade camera guided to 'laser guided' in exchange for less damage per shot? hell, not being able to fire around corners might be a big enough nerf to leave the damage as is.

I SandRock · 2011-02-17, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Knightwyvern

I used to play NC, though more recently I've been playing TR. I've never really used HA but I'd have to say as an observer, that the jackhammer is pretty ridiculous. I agree that the MCG and lasher can be annoying, but all too often do you turn a corner to be one shotted by a JH. There is something uniquely aggravating about fighting an enemy with the capability to kill you with such immediacy.

Yeah but the JH at least has as trade-off that its only effective up close. The MCG is pretty good in medium range AND close range and is just spray and pray for the winz :P

As for the Lasher.. I honestly think it's shit. The 'lash' people all talk about might be annoying when used in great numbers. But just one spec assault thumper is more annoying than all those lashes combined. And the damage on the gun is truly horrendous, you will lose 1 vs 1 with a JH and MCG and in longer range you'll lose to the medium assault machine guns. Even when you try to shoot for the feet and around corners you need a total clown of an enemy for him not to be able to move into LoS and instapwn you. (I'm talking in it's current state)
I never go HA when i play on VS, when I do have HA its so that I can loot the JH and MCG and use that, or take one out of my locker collection

It seems to be the common opinion on VS when I asked people that 4 points just aint worth the lasher for, better off using Sweeper. Thats why I call VS the scavenger empire :P
When I play on NC i love my JH though.. yum yum

I do agree the 1 shot mode should be removed. No gun, not even a vehicle gun (vanguard) should 1 shot you in Rexo at full HP and shield. It's just too random / cheap tbh.

Same goes for MAX though I have to say I have not used the VS AI max for a long time. But when i did years ago it felt absolutely shit compared to my recent use of the scatter NC Max. You seriously mow down a bunch of infantry infront of you if zero range them. The VS max seems to get owned quite easily... I don't know if the jet pack makes up for that..

Knightwyvern · 2011-02-17, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

I do agree the 1 shot mode should be removed. No gun, not even a vehicle gun (vanguard) should 1 shot you in Rexo at full HP and shield. It's just too random / cheap tbh.

Sounds like a good compromise

I SandRock · 2011-02-17, 07:05 PM

I'd totally go NC if my mate wasn't such a friggin vanu hippie. I love going infil with that little hand held shotgun pistol too :P

Bags · 2011-02-17, 07:50 PM

Lancer is hands down best AV, phoenix second, striker third.

No, ease of use does not make it good.

Originally Posted by I SandRock

Yeah but the JH at least has as trade-off that its only effective up close. The MCG is pretty good in medium range AND close range and is just spray and pray for the winz :P

As for the Lasher.. I honestly think it's shit. The 'lash' people all talk about might be annoying when used in great numbers. But just one spec assault thumper is more annoying than all those lashes combined. And the damage on the gun is truly horrendous, you will lose 1 vs 1 with a JH and MCG and in longer range you'll lose to the medium assault machine guns.
I never go HA when i play on VS, when I do have HA its so that I can loot the JH and MCG and use that, or take one out of my locker collection

When I play on NC i love my JH though.. yum yum

I do agree the 1 shot mode should be removed. No gun, not even a vehicle gun (vanguard) should 1 shot you in Rexo at full HP and shield. It's just too random / cheap tbh.

The lasher is on par with the other HAs in any settings it matters... IE big tower / base fights. So what if it isn't as good 1v1? The game isn't built around 1v1. Not saying it shouldn't be fixed, but QQ moar. Last time I hoped on my vs I went 25/4 ONLY USING THE LASHER. Yes, I was killing people at 50m who had MA with it.

Oh, and the jackhammer doesn't have a 1 hit KO any more.

Baneblade · 2011-02-17, 08:31 PM

I'd be for the total removal of all lock on based weapons. Even if that means the Wasp had to be changed to a flying flak cannon to remain viable.

Hamma · 2011-02-17, 11:25 PM

Yea lock on weapons are a bit overpowered. I mean, they would be good if a bit more in balance.

One thing I do want removed (and this is off topic) is Flak. Seriously? FLAK in the 25th century or whatever?!?!

Bags · 2011-02-18, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Yea lock on weapons are a bit overpowered. I mean, they would be good if a bit more in balance.

One thing I do want removed (and this is off topic) is Flak. Seriously? FLAK in the 25th century or whatever?!?!

The only lock on weapons in the game are the striker and the wasp. I don't think wasps are overpowered so much as annoying, and the striker is generally accepted as the worst ESAV.

Not sure where you're getting lock-ons are OP from tbh.

PS: Leave my burster alone. I like having the best AA max.

ArcticPrism · 2011-02-18, 01:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Yea lock on weapons are a bit overpowered. I mean, they would be good if a bit more in balance.

One thing I do want removed (and this is off topic) is Flak. Seriously? FLAK in the 25th century or whatever?!?!

Yet this "ancient" technology is flak can do something lock on weapons cant: hit around objects.

Traak · 2011-02-18, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

Of all the AV guns I hate the TR the most, kind of makes light vehicles useless. I know I am fighting TR before I see them because my screen goes

*BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP * *MISSLE LOCK MISSLE LOCK MISSLE LOCK MISSLE LOCK YOUVE GOT A FUCKING MISSLE LOCK DUDE YOU BETTER FUCKING RUN NOW OR YOURE SCREWED* "AAAARGHHH MISSLE LOCK!! WHERES A TREE! WHERES A TREE!! "

*KA-BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM*

OMG LOL I definitely can identify LOL

Traak · 2011-02-18, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

I'd totally go NC if my mate wasn't such a friggin vanu hippie.:P

LOL another gem. Vanu Hipppie LOLzz

CutterJohn · 2011-02-18, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Yea lock on weapons are a bit overpowered. I mean, they would be good if a bit more in balance.

One thing I do want removed (and this is off topic) is Flak. Seriously? FLAK in the 25th century or whatever?!?!

Unrealistic? Sure.

But lock on weapons are(imho) skill less noob weapons, especially PS versions which cannot in anyway miss unless completely obstructed and take zero skill to fire. I loved the burster for that reason. Using it, not flying against it. I hated flying against it.

I would like to get rid of all lock on weapons, with the possible exception of infantry based AA.

I would like to see the AV weaponry in PS limited to dumbfire rockets, laser/wire guided missiles, and antimaterial rifles. ES variants each weapon for all the empires.

Vehicular/max AA should be limited to flak, wire/laser guided missiles with proximity fuses, and high rate of fire bullets.. Something like those quad 50s on half tracks they used in ww2 as AA rather than a gatling gun so its not so effective vs infantry. MAXs in particular should have a choice between guided AA better suited to heavy air targets and flak for the swarming gnats.

Canaris · 2011-02-18, 03:25 AM

I would have put the striker as a number 1 on my list before its damaged was nerfed and the ammo amount increased but not any more.

While still very effective against most ground targets in clear sight it really has a problem in terrain with alot of cover as you need to keep the target painted or it's useless.

As for pilots "fearing" the striker, on mass sure but that's the same with every AA or AV weapon. 1 on 1 or 2 on 1 a decent pilot can just out run the striker by knowing not to fly over an enemy position without his turbo jet ready or just gun down the striker team as it takes alot of shells to drop a plane or tank.
Plus the lock on physics of the weapon and game weren't a 100% there would be times I had the a target dead on sights and the weapon wouldn't lock due lag or whatever also sometimes the missile would go haywire and start spinning.
I can't count how many times this happened to me.

For my list it would be in effective use

No1. Lancer - Great weapon usable on the move with pinpoint acc on visible targets
No2. Phoenix - It just beats the striker into number two place as it has a practical (even if people deny it) AV - AA & AI use in both defensive and offensive attacks. Great for softening up many targets from the comfort of cover.
No3. Striker for the reason I listed