Outfit homes - Page 2

I SandRock · 2011-02-22, 04:45 AM

Outfit members should be able to instantly recall to their base. This means that they are responsible for protecting their base

Hamma · 2011-02-22, 07:18 PM

Something gives me the feeling Traak doesn't like Outfits.

Seriously man - overreact much?

TRex · 2011-02-23, 12:32 PM

Never played DAoC , but from Warhammer online if I remember correctly a guild used guild points to claim a keep . Being attacked depleted the points, and obviously killing attackers added back to your guild points. The more points you had, the more options available to increase the defensiveness of said keep.

My only worry is whether the game would be, like hamma said , just a huge zerg-guild mentality to the game.

I do remember in 2004/5 mention of outfits being able to claim a base in planetside , but nothing came of it. But tbh, anything that gave outfit points some use would be a nice addition.

brinkdadrink · 2011-02-23, 12:48 PM

I have never played DAoC or Warhammer. I just thought it would be cool. I dont think outfit points should be used for this as it directly relates to how many people are in the outfit.

For simplicity i thought of time so the longer you keep the base the more points you get which you can spend so if you lose the base you lose all the points you built up. This would mean even if your outfit was small you could upgrade the same amount as the big outfits.

if you have less numbers it would be harder to defend solely as the outfit but more than likely you will have the empire back helping.

Also since you know the longer you wait to attack an empires home continent means the better the defenses will be on the bases.

The only other basis i can think of would be command rank. This way if you have a zerg outfit that doesn't work together they dont make as many points, while if you have an outfit that works well together they make more command points and thus can upgrade their base more.

I SandRock · 2011-02-23, 01:07 PM

Well, if an outfit can only hold one base then there should be plenty of bases for everyone, and then some.

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Something gives me the feeling Traak doesn't like Outfits.

Go back and read some of his posts from a few weeks ago. That guy got nerd-rage pissy about it, crying and QQ'ing about being kicked out of outfit after outfit. That's a serious case of Butthurt that not even Astroglide can fix.

Originally Posted by TRex

Never played DAoC , but from Warhammer online if I remember correctly a guild used guild points to claim a keep . Being attacked depleted the points, and obviously killing attackers added back to your guild points. The more points you had, the more options available to increase the defensiveness of said keep.

My only worry is whether the game would be, like hamma said , just a huge zerg-guild mentality to the game.

I do remember in 2004/5 mention of outfits being able to claim a base in planetside , but nothing came of it. But tbh, anything that gave outfit points some use would be a nice addition.

The early PS concept was Outfit Base Ownership. At the time it was not well-thought-out or at least was not described beyond saying an outfit could claim a base. And people that never played DAoC were bitching about it because they didn't understand.

The thing with WAR keep-claims wasn't that you used points. Your guild had to acquire a certain guild level (which it got by having active members playing, inactive members hurt guild XP progress). Once it got to that level, a guild would simply go to the keep and place their banner at the top of the keep. You then paid keep maintenance, which was in the form of gold/silver. That came out of the guild treasury, so guild taxes came into play *OR* for the ultra-liberal you could just donate.

As long as you defended your keep from aggressors and you paid the rent, you kept the keep. In just about all cases, you couldn't actually lock a map without the keeps being claimed.

I'd actually *ALMOST* like to see a system like that implemented, especially if there were battlefield objectives - OUTDOOR objectives, mainly, which focus around a simple "obelisk of power" or some other mythical object outside (as opposed to some man-made shit like a tower or base). Outdoor objectives which require someone to capture them mean potential for an outdoor battle. That would solve the issue of the age-old PS gripe "the game centres around indoor base combat".

I say *ALMOST* because then you'd have a sort of economy implemented, which would lead to little shitheads named Fang Baolan and Hu Jianming spamming the fuck out of public channels offering gold selling services. However, now that I think about it, this can be circumvented by an outfit paying for their base by the slow decay of outfit points. That way, an outfit which likes to claim bases has to actually work to stay up at the top of the outfit-points roster.

Manitou · 2011-02-23, 01:48 PM

My question is how do you prevent an Outfit simply recruiting six gazillion lemmings and earning points out the wazoo just by existing?

Maybe figure out a point system that divides up the points percentage wise based on the outfit population?

You would have to limit the zerg-outfit mentality somehow or small skilled outfits would find it hard to compete simply because of the point generating population.

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Manitou

My question is how do you prevent an Outfit simply recruiting six gazillion lemmings and earning points out the wazoo just by existing?

Technically, in the existing system, you don't. Ever see HMX-1 and Dark Skyes? Same concept - there's no percentage factor based on active members, so it's literally "invite all [No Outfit] tags and ninja-jack other outfits' members" and accrue XP. Then brag about how you're Number One In Outfit Points in public chat, reinforcing the notion that you are, in fact and not just theory, a fucking tool.

Originally Posted by Manitou

Maybe figure out a point system that divides up the points percentage wise based on the outfit population?

Now, in PS:N, since there's not yet a system, perhaps someone will read this and take a page from other systems. An outfit can gain outfit XP based on the incoming XP from each member - but that XP should be based on an algorithm that factors in something like the number of online players and the number of active players in the last two weeks. Case in point, Warhammer Online's guild system - guild XP was earned based on a percentage decided by the people online, and the people who were active in the last X-amount of days.

Can it be exploited? Sure - WAR guilds would kick people who weren't online, thereby maxing out the XP that could be earned. They'd just reinvite people afterwards. But you can't do that in Planetside if you care about your outfit points contributions - you get kicked, you start at zero (the outfit doesn't lose that XP, but still...).

Originally Posted by Manitou

You would have to limit the zerg-outfit mentality somehow or small skilled outfits would find it hard to compete simply because of the point generating population.

Small skilled outfits can compete with the above model, provided they are small skilled outfits not populated by 50% inactive members/alts. Even with the current system (versus the future version I outlined), a small skilled outfit can compete. Prior to pop declines that warranted server mergers, my small outfit stayed in the Top Ten. The only people who had more points than us were incredibly large outfits. Which is why I nanny-nanny-booboo at them.

Having a system like this for Outfit Base Ownership, based on using Outfit Points, not only prevents econo-whores and gold-sellers and thus the inevitable gold-spammers, but it also forces outfits to continually be active if they claim a base regularly, *IF* they want to stay in the Top Ten (of outfit points). But it will only truly work if outfit-experience is applied based on active people, instead of zergfitting the shit out of it.

Manitou · 2011-02-23, 02:36 PM

As usual, an excellent examination of the issue. You sir, are a gentleman, and true warrior.

(Note: you will notice I didn't use the word "true" in conjunction with the gentleman descriptor. That would be stretching my integrity just a bit.)

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Manitou

As usual, an excellent examination of the issue.

I worked on WAR and DAoC.

Not really difficult to come up with something decent. To be frank, Planetside is *OLD* as active games go. Its systems haven't really been upgraded a lot - all I see are the same three "Events" over and over again. It's in maintenance-mode, as they say. Hopefully PS:N incorporates a lot of elements which have since been developed.

Timantium · 2011-02-23, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Traak

Hey, well, while we're at the whole flying your flag thing, let's make AMS's so you can choose who spawns at them. It would help make your AMS less of a magnet for trouble if you and a few other cloakers, not AV morons, could spawn at it and continue to use it for something other than a great place to get spammed by Reaver rockets that were attracted by the moron AV's.

lol umadbro?
OR
you could not put your ams in a spot that "moron AV's" are fighting... You are the driver, it is your responsibility to watch your ams and move it if too many people are drawing attention to it.

It's the same as watching all the tards standing on the roof of an interlink waiting to get OSed. Don't stand in a big group with everyone if you don't want to get the OS.

EDIT*
Regarding the outfit points issue: I like the idea to add a modifier to help small, yet active, outfits. Let's say for the sake of my terrible math you have the standard BEP to outfit point ratio set at 1:1. If you have 100 percent membership logging in the last 48 hours you get triple the ratio BEP to OP (3:1). 75 percent logging in gets you 2:1. 50 percent keeps you even, 25 percent is 0.5:1 and 0 percent is (obviously) 0.

This means the large zerg outfits will get good OP because of their large membership, but not at the same rate as smaller, more active outfits. It effectively doubles or triples the "membership" of a smaller outfit by giving them bonus modifiers for being active and penalizes or maintains status for larger outfits whose members are more casual.

If this is too complicated to keep track of every day or two, they could make it calculate every week on server maintenance and the bonus/penalty could last for the ensuing week. The minimum log time to count for roll call could be set for 15 minutes or a significant action (assist/kill/cap).

Kicking people could have a penalty too, encouraging outfits to do a better job of screening candidates in the first place. Say any outfit that kicks a member has to refund half of that members total outfit points contributed as a penalty.

I SandRock · 2011-02-23, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Firefly

I worked on WAR and DAoC.

Not really difficult to come up with something decent. To be frank, Planetside is *OLD* as active games go. Its systems haven't really been upgraded a lot - all I see are the same three "Events" over and over again. It's in maintenance-mode, as they say. Hopefully PS:N incorporates a lot of elements which have since been developed.

What did you work as and how did you allow WAR to pale in comparison to DAoC. I will hold you personally accountable.

Firefly · 2011-02-23, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

What did you work as and how did you allow WAR to pale in comparison to DAoC. I will hold you personally accountable.

There were a number of things that caused the game to do poorly - from EA to Mark Jacobs all the way down to department heads. It's neither here nor there, unfortunately. It would be incredibly poor form and in bad taste, to say nothing of any NDAs etc to even hint at why WAR failed, at least publicly. I wasn't a decision-maker, just a boot on the ground. I'm also not going to identify my job position because I don't want any fallout should someone happen to stumble upon a post of mine and then come a'hunting later.

Grimster · 2011-02-24, 04:29 AM

A bit OT which I apologize for.

WAR had several issues but in my opinion one of the bigger issues was EA pressuring Mythic into keeping the deadline which forced them to remove a large chunk of the content prior to the release.

On topic. I like Firefly's analysis of it and his suggestion would defiantly work in PS:N and I hope we get to see some kind of system where outfits are able to claim bases.

Most of Firefly's posts are very informative and structured and I rarely see him posting crap. Besides his nickname happens to be the name on one of the most awesome sci fi shows ever which only that brings me happy feelings every time I see a post of his.

I SandRock · 2011-02-24, 08:22 AM

Well, I know why WAR sucks compared to DAoC as I played both. And I can forgive those who worked on WAR and had not worked on DAoC. But I will never forgive those who worked on DAoC and allowed WAR to become WAR

You shall all have to answer for your crimes when the time comes...

Also, I felt WAR, at first, was heading in a decent direction (I say decent because I hate the Warhammer universe) - but then switched goals from a DAoC-like game to a WoW-like game.

Firefly... firefly... you shouldn't worry about other people's lasers... imachargin mah laz0rz! :P

PS. This is not OT. The discussion is over. I am simply recycling