Ammo Types - Page 2

Bags · 2011-02-22, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

I agree it should either be removed from the game or reworked to actually be useful and effective. Not just do a slightly bit more damage against MAX/vehicles still amounting to nothing :P

Even those saying it was somewhat useful in HA aren't entirely right... (I think).. HA simply did more damage anyway, the difference between using normal vs AP in those guns was very small too and only really noticeable if you could fire a full / several clips into something. Which meant the driver / player was being an idiot

AP JH / MCG eat maxes in less than half 3/4 of a clip. Against any max but an AI max it's plenty easy to kill them.

I never said it was good against tanks. It could scare away mossies at best.

I SandRock · 2011-02-22, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

AP JH / MCG eat maxes in less than half 3/4 of a clip. Against any max but an AI max it's plenty easy to kill them.

I never said it was good against tanks. It could scare away mossies at best.

And non-AP does it in 1 clip with the JH. (tried on TR max, fun to walk up behind them when deployed and stick a JH up their butt) So 3/4th is 5 shots with AP, non-AP is 6 shots

Bags · 2011-02-22, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

And non-AP does it in 1 clip with the JH. (tried on TR max, fun to walk up behind them when deployed and stick a JH up their butt) So 3/4th is 5 shots with AP, non-AP is 6 shots

Good job, we should base everything around stationary targets. I'm assuming against a target that could pop pshield / medikit / nc max shield / dodge part of your shots. Against moving maxes it generally takes 3/4th of a clip, no idea against stationary, AFK targets.

I SandRock · 2011-02-22, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Good job, we should base everything around stationary targets. I'm assuming against a target that could pop pshield / medikit / nc max shield / dodge part of your shots. Against moving maxes it generally takes 3/4th of a clip, no idea against stationary, AFK targets.

Yes, you should base it off actual hits. Because misses are totally random and based on nothing. So it's 1 shot less.

BorisBlade · 2011-02-22, 09:46 PM

Actually, AP MCG's chew up maxes rather well, the times i havent had the AV cert i keep a second AP filled MCG for my dual MCG set ups, i havent ran all the damage numbers lately but wouldnt doubt if up close you could do more damage with an mcg than a striker vs a max in the same time span. AP ammo does double damage versus maxes which is really all that it was meant to be used on. Never meant for vehicles. If you are shooting bullets at a tank or somethin and expecting it to do much you are in trouble. Not even av weapons do a ton to vechicles and they are designed specifically for that.

And yeah it takes a second to switch ammo types (unless you are vs then its instant and doesn need different ammo on the pulsar and just given for free to the normal damage on the lasher (but at slightly reduced damage), but that is intentional. It means you have to make a choice. Vs get it for free as the benefit because they lose out in other areas, the lasher does a little less versus maxes but doesnt need to switch ammo types (very cool imo), The pulsar does less damage per second than the other MA weaps (not by much tho), so it gets a decent clip and the nice AP mode.

Makin you have to choose is nice. Doesnt happen alot so it works out very well. It also allows you to do some solid damage to armor but still remains weaker than the options with AV as it should.

In short, its there to let you have somethin to fight maxes with if you dont have the AV cert that does well but not as good as AV. The ammo switchin is to obvioulsy keep the role for AV and to add choices in the game which in the end are fun, keeping the variety is key to the fun of PS.

GoldDragon · 2011-02-23, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Actually, AP MCG's chew up maxes rather well, the times i havent had the AV cert i keep a second AP filled MCG for my dual MCG set ups, i havent ran all the damage numbers lately but wouldnt doubt if up close you could do more damage with an mcg than a striker vs a max in the same time span. AP ammo does double damage versus maxes which is really all that it was meant to be used on. Never meant for vehicles. If you are shooting bullets at a tank or somethin and expecting it to do much you are in trouble. Not even av weapons do a ton to vechicles and they are designed specifically for that.

And yeah it takes a second to switch ammo types (unless you are vs then its instant and doesn need different ammo on the pulsar and just given for free to the normal damage on the lasher (but at slightly reduced damage), but that is intentional. It means you have to make a choice. Vs get it for free as the benefit because they lose out in other areas, the lasher does a little less versus maxes but doesnt need to switch ammo types (very cool imo), The pulsar does less damage per second than the other MA weaps (not by much tho), so it gets a decent clip and the nice AP mode.

Makin you have to choose is nice. Doesnt happen alot so it works out very well. It also allows you to do some solid damage to armor but still remains weaker than the options with AV as it should.

In short, its there to let you have somethin to fight maxes with if you dont have the AV cert that does well but not as good as AV. The ammo switchin is to obvioulsy keep the role for AV and to add choices in the game which in the end are fun, keeping the variety is key to the fun of PS.

/win

Well put - I would have to agree. I'd still like to see empire specific rounds tho so if someone picks up a cycler or gauss they can't automatically have the ammo for it... lol

Bruttal · 2011-02-23, 12:11 AM

The way AP mode is Currently is DUMB, For what reason is it called ARMOR PIERCING? if it doesn't do mild health damage per shot?

Different Ammo would do Different Levels of Health Damage along with the Large ammo damage. for instance Pulsar AP mode would be decent for people in Agil armor while AP mode on HA would be good for fighting Rexo suits. and we already have AV weapons, but if you lit up any of those AP ammos/firing modes it would pierce the vehicles armor and damage the players armor if the players armor = 0 Health damage is applyed

TRex · 2011-04-03, 05:48 AM

I was about to start a thread about this then the nice forum thing gave me the similar thread pop-up, so here I am.

I remember when I first played this game , and I deduced ( incorrectly ofc) that logic made me believe that everyone except infiltrators was wearing 'Armour' , therefore it made sense to use AP ammo since it was 'Armour Piercing'.

I was going to ask someone with actual Military experience if this was indeed how it should work?

I believed that normal ammo 'squashed' on impact with flesh, therefore doing a lot of contact damage by damaging organs and bone upon impact with said body. Its like instant critical trauma to flesh .

Armour Piercing ammo , as I understand it , has a much harder point therefore allowing it the possibility of penetrating said armour . Maybe not do as much 'squashing' and actual damage overall , but still get into the flesh and weaken them to the point where it hurts or may stun them.

From this deduction , I find it bemusing that if I shoot someone in armour , say a max that the ammo sort of steadily removes the amour . A bit like stripping paint from a wall. It's like the magic bullet theory , my ammo systematically finds every bit of ammo from a body , removes it and then and only then it attacks flesh .

Surely AP ammo should be like a sliding scale eg

Agile armor 30% armour 70% HP damage ( for each bullet )
Rexo armour 50% armour 50% HP
AI Max 80% armour 20% HP
AA Max 95% armour 5%HP
AV Max 95% armour 5% HP

Just random figures, but I hope you get the jist of what I mean. So if white ammo hits a standard for 10HP per bullet , hitting a raxo with AP ammo would do 5HP damage and remove 10 armour.

I suggested that AV/ AA have more armor than an AI max , or maybe a hard point system like that Vindicator guy posts.

My ultimate point is that if AP ammo had a sliding scale , it could rule out the need for white ammo altogether and maybe make Maxes a little less of an irritation indoors , and sustained fire from 2 or 3 grunts take them down pretty fast . Maxes outdoors it would be more effective to carry AV weapons since they have much more armour.

Aractain · 2011-04-03, 07:48 AM

The confusion behind the Armour Piercing vs Standard ammo is that it was badly named.

Anti-Material - tooltip: "Anti-Material rounds. Used to destroy light turrets, vehicles and MAXs"
Anti-Personel - tooltip: "Anti-Personel rounds. Effective against infantry."

The wonders of modern games...

LordReaver · 2011-04-04, 10:09 AM

AP MCG is great for taking out aircraft. You can kill a mossy with it in no time.

AP ammo is redundant, but I don't think it would really matter either way. What should be cleared up though, is plasma vs frag.

FortunadoAE · 2011-04-04, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by LordReaver

AP MCG is great for taking out aircraft. You can kill a mossy with it in no time.

AP ammo is redundant, but I don't think it would really matter either way. What should be cleared up though, is plasma vs frag.

Yeah, even after I "understood" the difference, I still had a hard time deciding/caring between these. And I loved the grenade launcher. The biggest thing I discovered is that plasma is a great psychological tool-- the burning really made people MOVE.

I also agree on AP ammo. It's a simple feature. It's a pain in the butt that provides a small edge to the prepared player. There should be more things like this, not less. But really it's small enough that I don't care either way.

CutterJohn · 2011-04-04, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by TRex

I was going to ask someone with actual Military experience if this was indeed how it should work?

Thats the way it works, excepting for the fact that there is really no such thing as armor piercing bullets for infantry rifles. They either pierce armor, or they don't. Its not till you get into the .50s and above you start seeing the specialty rounds, and those are primarily worried about taking on different sorts of armored targets, or how to spread death over a larger area.

And there is really no call for making AP vs AM rounds, since something that can make it through body armor will royally mess a person up, as is normal with bullets. And it will have no issues messing them up sans body armor. Bodies are pretty frail.

I do think that alternate ammos for weapons wouldn't be a bad idea, but I would approach it more from a useability or functionality standpoint. A harder hitting round that also cranks up the cof and recoil, or has a reduced clip size. That sort of thing.

Rbstr · 2011-04-05, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Thats the way it works, excepting for the fact that there is really no such thing as armor piercing bullets for infantry rifles.

Yes there are, just not often used, sometimes because of dubious legality or other issues.
Hollow points and very small exploding projectiles are banned by international law, for instance (yeah, not Armour-piercing ammunition, just an illustration).
Flechette rounds have been explored as well for infantry rifles, they've got all sorts of stuff better and worse than traditional bullets.

There are VASTLY different wound patterns and survivability between a hollow point and an FMJ type round.

Lots of things you can do with a bullet to make it go though body or other armors (which most would call "armor piercing") or do more tissue damage.
It's often a trade-off between the two.

Silverfish · 2011-04-05, 01:03 AM

I for one enjoyed using AP ammo in my Jackhammer against maxes. Usually had a box of it in my pilot inventory in case some AA max decided to give me trouble. So I'd be happy if it stayed in the game as it is in PS. But like most other people in here, I wouldnt really care if it doesn't make it into the next game.

SilentHunterNC · 2011-04-12, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by wildcat140679

I agree with Raymac, when I started playing after beta, gold ammo was frequently used and still felt like being of some value. But as I and those around progressed, people started packing one anti infantry weapon and one anti vehicle weapon and the use of gold ammo some what became obsolete.

I would not mind to see that AP rounds have a slightly bigger impact on vehicles, to make switching to AP feel worth it if you don't have any other AV weapon on you.

I personally liked the gold(ap) ammo. Shoot when some buddies and I would get bored we would just go around killing maxes w/ AP ammo. Also, with ap ammo it allows newer players the ability to buy rexo, which after the buff everyone had, earlier. IMO no need to remove somethign just because some people claim it to be obsol33t.