[Chainfall Original] Air Cruisers: Next

[Hamma]

Some really interesting ideas in this thread. The above concept reminds me of that bigass ship in avatar.

[Tikuto]

Air Cruisers are a sweet idea. I think this is the thing that inspired the creation of the Galaxy Gunship.

With super power comes super control. Like the BFRs that are still ineffectively controlled, they are super-powers that are uncontrolled according to the fairness (and balance) of what PlanetSide is ideally to be.

An Air or even Orbital Cruiser like this needs control. Balance and Control equals to fair competitive action-shooter multi-player gaming like it always does, but when you add a super-power to the fair mix it becomes an uncontrolled mess. Controlling this mess scales it to fair again...

Because the player-base is an uncontrollable solution. There has to be some game system control that applies to all Empires for all Empires, and the control would be the Outfit that achieves the super-weapon availabiltiy and activation first.

An Outfit can be in possession of one though the whole game controls how it's fair-played - not not several outfits with shitloads of super-weapons. Because of the size of the cruiser may mean pre-requisite online population of an Outfit or something, and maybe other things like you Empire is near-defeat and so an Air Cruiser (end-game boss) comes to scale the war and reclaim half of Auraxis for its lifetime/duration. Once everything is checked, the rarity of an Air Cruiser would appear and an Outfit could be responsible. Outfit's taking command of an Imperial Cruiser stimulates competition between friendly Outfits, and competitive leadership means for greater leadership.

Contribution (SUGGESTION):

• Imperial Cruisers (as I'd like to name them) could float in the air, go in and out of orbit and land on the ocean. The ultimate super-power of Auraxis domination that ultimately insists the war!
• They would be end-game bosses controlled by selected Outfits and their players. When an Empire summons an Imperial Cruiser they can reclaim the planet unless destroyed.
• They would have multiple huge hitboxes like shooting a vehicle as its whole. Each hitbox is a big gunner location.
• Biggest weakness: Orbital Strikes
• Counter weakness: Ascend into orbit and seize enemy Orbital Stations.
  
  Pre-requisites:
  • Sufficient active players on the server-World.
  • Sufficient amount of players online within an outfit.
  • You Empire is in peril, near-defeat and requires a climatic resolution: "Summon the Imperial Cruiser!"
  • Recharge timer has completed since last Imperial Cruiser appearance
    _
• Empire refuses to allow your Outfit's Imperial Cruiser to enter continents within enemy Orbital Station view.

edit: If Cruiser such as awesome as this were to be included into PlanetSide, why not bring back BFRs to scale their terror?

[Grimster]

That bigass ship in Avatar was really awesome.

I really loved it. I don't know why but it kind of reminded me of Planetside for some odd reason. Might be the shape of the hull or something.

[Traak]

I think Cameron intentionally made the ship look like a massive, flying tick. That's all it reminded me of.

[Tikuto]

[Firefly]

If this CONSUMES outfit points, you have an easy way to control it.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Firefly

If this CONSUMES outfit points, you have an easy way to control it.

That is the intention, yes.

[Canaris]

Is anyone else getting the feeling of a "flying BFR overbalance on crack" while looking at the concept of the airship.

It's an Alpha Class weapons system and excuse me but after what went on with BFR's Planetside doesn't need another AC.

I really like the concept of a massive multi user ship but on the forum there is a discussion already about the complete over balance of a Galaxy Gunship, from the look of some of the suggestions you want to kick that up a notch?
With most of the people who posting here calling for the GG to be scrapped or down graded.

This airship idea was also floated back in 2002 or 2003 same as here it was warmly received even by the Dev's at the time but ultimately it was dropped by the wayside as impractical and over balanced.

This is the problem I see a lot and not just here but on almost every gaming site talking about big concepts for a game, they have the idea but don't take the time to think about the long term effects it would have on the game.

"How will this fit into the game practically?"
"What effect will it cause to the game population, Empire population, outfit populations?"
"Is it a good idea or only a good concept?"
"How will it balance out?"

In closing as a concept I love it always did since I saw it all those years ago but being a bit more mature now I can objectively look at it and say (Without knowing whats in PS-N of course) I can say no on this scale this won't work.

my three fiddy.

[DviddLeff]

Well... how could it work?

As a concept it works pretty well, especially when you consider it has been proved to work by BF2142 which had titan game mode which is basically an outfit cruiser.

[Azellon]

Hmm. The thing going through my head is a Protoss voice saying "Carrier has arrived".

So building on that...make it largely incapable of defending itself. It has a shield that slowly recharges at all times, even when under fire. The key here is "slowly"; it's not going to be getting better if it stays under heavy fire, it can't land, and glue guns don't work on it. You have to get it out of battle and let the shield recharge.

The thing is, this thing has to be defended. It possesses the means to its defense but has no weapons of its own. It is a flying base, essentially. It can spawn vehicles and players to control said vehicles. It can't fit anyone who spawns on it in anything larger than a Pilot's suit.

You have two types of vehicles that this thing spawns:

A Bomber, like the Liberator, but there's only the pilot and it has no guns, just bombs.

A Wasp or something similar designed to take control of the skies.

Those vehicles are incapable of landing at normal base facilities or on the ground, they rely entirely on the carrier. They could even have a maximum "Control Range" after which they start to lose effectiveness and eventually crash.

This would require a large group of teamwork-oriented people to even be capable of pulling it off.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Canaris

Is anyone else getting the feeling of a "flying BFR overbalance on crack" while looking at the concept of the airship.

You are missing the most critical part of the idea:

These are all intentionally designed to avoid direct interaction with the ground game. ACs can obviously support a battle (on the individual outfit level), but will not be parked over a base farming doors.

I really like the concept of a massive multi user ship but on the forum there is a discussion already about the complete over balance of a Galaxy Gunship, from the look of some of the suggestions you want to kick that up a notch?
With most of the people who posting here calling for the GG to be scrapped or down graded.

The GG is exactly the opposite of what this idea is about. This idea is about outfit oriented warfare, naval combat, and more than just another farming vehicle.

This airship idea was also floated back in 2002 or 2003 same as here it was warmly received even by the Dev's at the time but ultimately it was dropped by the wayside as impractical and over balanced.

It was dropped by the wayside because SOE decided to drop the dev team by the wayside and put in 'babysitter' devs.

This is the problem I see a lot and not just here but on almost every gaming site talking about big concepts for a game, they have the idea but don't take the time to think about the long term effects it would have on the game.

That statement would be a huge insult to me if I knew it was not made out of sheer ignorance.

"How will this fit into the game practically?"

Covered.

"What effect will it cause to the game population, Empire population, outfit populations?"

Other than all of those being significantly higher than without them?

"Is it a good idea or only a good concept?"
"How will it balance out?"

Can you be a bit more specific?

In closing as a concept I love it always did since I saw it all those years ago but being a bit more mature now I can objectively look at it and say (Without knowing whats in PS-N of course) I can say no on this scale this won't work.

It would absolutely work if implemented my way and not the BFR, GG, or traditional SOE way.

Originally Posted by Azellon

Hmm. The thing going through my head is a Protoss voice saying "Carrier has arrived".

Or Homeworld 2's: 'Battlecruiser Complete.'

So building on that...make it largely incapable of defending itself. It has a shield that slowly recharges at all times, even when under fire. The key here is "slowly"; it's not going to be getting better if it stays under heavy fire, it can't land, and glue guns don't work on it. You have to get it out of battle and let the shield recharge.

The only weapons it has in this idea are to fight other air cruisers and aircraft that get too close. The secondary method of taking these out will no doubt be infiltrator (or just hotdropper) sabotage. The shield in the original idea consumed NTU, which I still consider to be a viable idea. ACs needing a fuel source to stay viable makes sense to me.

The thing is, this thing has to be defended. It possesses the means to its defense but has no weapons of its own.

So how do you propose to ever actually take one out?

It is a flying base, essentially. It can spawn vehicles and players to control said vehicles. It can't fit anyone who spawns on it in anything larger than a Pilot's suit.

I avoided vehicle spawning in this idea intentionally. The only thing worse than an unkillable airship farming Seth, is an unkillable airship spewing out Reavers. I think the outfit spawn room is perfect. It doesn't help the rest of the empire directly, but it lets that outfit control their primary (or backup) spawn point. Outfit locked AMSes are the oldest idea in PS entirely oriented on support. But SOE unequivocally stated AMSes will always be empire scale logistics.

This would require a large group of teamwork-oriented people to even be capable of pulling it off.

The air cruiser idea I put forward already demands a crew to operate.

[Baneblade]

I had to delete some of Addendum VI due to the 10000 character limit. I wonder if there is a way to change that?

[Azellon]

Originally Posted by Sobekeus

The only weapons it has in this idea are to fight other air cruisers and aircraft that get too close. The secondary method of taking these out will no doubt be infiltrator (or just hotdropper) sabotage. The shield in the original idea consumed NTU, which I still consider to be a viable idea. ACs needing a fuel source to stay viable makes sense to me.

I dislike the idea of it having weapons of its own at all, really. This thing should be less defensible than a base, since it has a great advantage on a base: You can't reach it by walking up to it.

So how do you propose to ever actually take one out?

Your own idea of making the shield cost NTU was a decent idea. Maybe it needs to return to a warpgate every so often in order to refuel. Additionally, you could give it a number of generators (much like we have in bases right now) that could provide this shielding or provide power for the other facilities such as the spawn rooms and vehicle pads that I proposed. Take out a generator, the carrier loses that capability. This could include Engines as well so that the carrier can't move. These generators CAN be repaired by a glue gun or will repair themselves if the ship has NTU. But you have to get folks into the ship to take it out.

I avoided vehicle spawning in this idea intentionally. The only thing worse than an unkillable airship farming Seth, is an unkillable airship spewing out Reavers. I think the outfit spawn room is perfect. It doesn't help the rest of the empire directly, but it lets that outfit control their primary (or backup) spawn point. Outfit locked AMSes are the oldest idea in PS entirely oriented on support. But SOE unequivocally stated AMSes will always be empire scale logistics.

That's why I suggested making them capable of spawning only two types of ships, neither of which resemble the Reaver. Hell, you could even make it so pilots simply can't ditch out of these aircraft (in addition to being stuck in a Pilot's suit) so that they are stuck in the air. If you limit the amount of smaller craft these things can launch and put a respawn timer on them like other vehicles have, combined with the generator soft spots and NTU-driven shield, it would be far from "unkillable".

The air cruiser idea I put forward already demands a crew to operate.

The ideas are not mutually exclusive.

[Tikuto]

Actually... Yeah a cruiser that acts like a facility... but in the sky! . Defending it would be like mounting a wall turret.

[Baneblade]

Originally Posted by Azellon

I dislike the idea of it having weapons of its own at all, really. This thing should be less defensible than a base, since it has a great advantage on a base: You can't reach it by walking up to it.

So when two air cruisers are near each other they are supposed to ram each other to death? No outfit would buy any cruiser if it was just a flying base with twice the vulnerabilities and thirty times the difficulty in obtaining and maintaining. No, the weapons are critical to making them not fucking boring. And the weapons are next to useless against anything other than other air cruisers.

Your own idea of making the shield cost NTU was a decent idea. Maybe it needs to return to a warpgate every so often in order to refuel. Additionally, you could give it a number of generators (much like we have in bases right now) that could provide this shielding or provide power for the other facilities such as the spawn rooms and vehicle pads that I proposed. Take out a generator, the carrier loses that capability. This could include Engines as well so that the carrier can't move. These generators CAN be repaired by a glue gun or will repair themselves if the ship has NTU. But you have to get folks into the ship to take it out.

This idea is already a part of it, but I ran out of room to add it into the OP. Each major function has a subsystem and a backup that can be taken offline. The primary being offline makes the backup vulnerable to sabotage (but they can't be taken out simultaneously) and the system only runs at 50% efficienct off the backup.

That's why I suggested making them capable of spawning only two types of ships, neither of which resemble the Reaver. Hell, you could even make it so pilots simply can't ditch out of these aircraft (in addition to being stuck in a Pilot's suit) so that they are stuck in the air. If you limit the amount of smaller craft these things can launch and put a respawn timer on them like other vehicles have, combined with the generator soft spots and NTU-driven shield, it would be far from "unkillable".

I toyed with the idea you are pushing and the closest I came to it is flight decks or hangar bays that people can land and service aircraft in. I want to stay away from vehicle spawning of any kind on Air Cruisers. Logistics should be more than just the inconvenience of refueling NTU.

There is nothing that says you can't bind yourself to a DC or a TP and spawn a vehicle there and simply fly it to the Air Cruiser.

Frigate class: two air pads that can repair and rearm outfit aircraft.

Destroyer class: six air pads

Cruiser class: Hangar bay large enough for two Galaxies

Battlecruiser: Through Deck Hangar large enough for a large outfit to stage an air raid from (four or so Galaxies in size)

But all of those vehicles must be spawned off the air ship, which makes taking heavy air losses a significant problem for a Cruiser.