Planetside 1 was ahead of its time

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by KornDemon

Fun? Yes. Original? Not so much. Both Battlefield 1942 and C&C Renegade came out before PS. Planetside wasn't that much different .. just bigger and with more players.

I can't say I ever played Renegade, but I imagine PS had far more of an RPG element to the characters, with the certification system and implants. Wiki says Renegade has bases, but I imagine Planetside's system beats Renegade's by a mile. Then you have all the support roles such as adv hack, CE, AMS', lodestars...

Granted, Planetside wasn't the first to have troops, vehicles and aircraft in the same instance, but I think it had plenty of originality to it besides.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

Actually PS doesnt play at all like BF. Those games are more about instant death and quick play. Very little interactivity with various aspects of the game. No teamwork really needed other than everyone zerg the other team. Not much diversity, not much of many things. PS has alot more depth. It feels more strategic even from the point of the soldier in how you fight or what you fight with. BF, and esp CoD are just zerg in and hope you get the first shot, if you do you win if you dont they win (due to instant death with most any weapon), instantly respawn and zerg back at em again. Its the same as teh days of UT and quake just with modern weapons and better graphics.

If you think BF didn't need a squad, you're doing it wrong. Oh, sure, kills were easier, so if you got the drop on some people, you could take them out solo. Maybe. But not reliably.

What PS had was a far more glaring rock/paper/scissors dynamic. AV weapons were AV weapons only, of only nominal use vs infantry or air. Infantry weapons were very strictly divided into range groups by punishing cones of fire and damage degradation.

Oh, and quite often, PS respawn times are shorter than BF. Unless you've been dying a lot. Zerg back at them? Base battles were nothing but zergs.

[DviddLeff]

BF ismore infantry battles with the odd vehicle to spice things up.

PS in my eyes needs to be more like BF with respect to weapon effectiveness; TTK especially.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

BF ismore infantry battles with the odd vehicle to spice things up.

PS in my eyes needs to be more like BF with respect to weapon effectiveness; TTK especially.

Would need easier/faster healing and rezzing though. BF could get away with the big maps with short ttks because of the medics ease of rezzing and ease of healing(either the bf2 complete heal packs or the BC2 heal aura kits. Heal aura is better imo). And definitely more space to operate in, with more cover to utilize.

On the whole I agree though. BF is pretty much my ideal of infantry combat.

[Raymac]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

BF ismore infantry battles with the odd vehicle to spice things up.

PS in my eyes needs to be more like BF with respect to weapon effectiveness; TTK especially.

I think I see what you are saying, but I think the TTK in PS1 is just right. In 1 on 1 it takes a couple seconds, if a few people are focus firing on you...well you are dead faster than you can say "oh crap".

I don't know how well PS would play if 1 person could take you down as quickly as it currently takes 3 people to do it. I could see it now:
spawn -> run -> BAM killed in 2 bullets -> respawn -> run -> BAM killed in 2 bullets -> rage quit.

I like having that little bit of time to find cover. If I'm out in the open, the current TTK will take me out just fine, if we increase that, the 1 on 1 kills will happen too quickly which will make 2 on 1 and above basically be insta-kills. Instant death will cause many keyboards to be thrown against walls.

[Vancha]

Agreed. If the TTK was any shorter, most battles would come down to who saw who first.

[Goku]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I think I see what you are saying, but I think the TTK in PS1 is just right. In 1 on 1 it takes a couple seconds, if a few people are focus firing on you...well you are dead faster than you can say "oh crap".

I don't know how well PS would play if 1 person could take you down as quickly as it currently takes 3 people to do it. I could see it now:
spawn -> run -> BAM killed in 2 bullets -> respawn -> run -> BAM killed in 2 bullets -> rage quit.

I like having that little bit of time to find cover. If I'm out in the open, the current TTK will take me out just fine, if we increase that, the 1 on 1 kills will happen too quickly which will make 2 on 1 and above basically be insta-kills. Instant death will cause many keyboards to be thrown against walls.

Could not of said it better myself.

[DviddLeff]

What annoys me is the difference between the infantry weapons; if you have the wrong weapon you are simply screwed especially up close where you should be able to have a chance with even pistols; HA shouldn't be the only weapon to carry within 10 meters.

It should give you an advantage yes, but since the rexo buff low damage per shot weapons have been severely gimped compared to HA.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Raymac

I don't know how well PS would play if 1 person could take you down as quickly as it currently takes 3 people to do it. I could see it now:
spawn -> run -> BAM killed in 2 bullets -> respawn -> run -> BAM killed in 2 bullets -> rage quit.

PS would play horribly if that happened, because of those crappy base designs that are a never ending series of choke points that get focused on. Rather like the death traps that were the titans in BF2142 I should think.

No, PS weapons feel entirely too anemic.


And as I said, BF compensates for the increased lethality with the more powerful rez and healing capabilities.

[BorisBlade]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

BF ismore infantry battles with the odd vehicle to spice things up.

PS in my eyes needs to be more like BF with respect to weapon effectiveness; TTK especially.

Hell no. If PS turns into that god awful instant death crap i'm done with it. Much more interesting when you can get hit by a shot or two and then take cover and react or adjust to the fight. Playing CoD type games where the second you see you are gettin hit you are already dead, is boring without having that back and forth. Infantry fights are just about who sees who first. Those kind of fights are beyond frustrating when you get hit first and too lame and easy when you attack first. Plus PS has fixed location spawn points with often sizable times to get back into battle. If im just gonna die instantly then spend a bunch of time gettin back just to die instantly to most often things i never see til im dead then thats not gonna be fun in the least.

Plus with those boring insant deaths you have very little room to balance weapons. If everything kills ya near instantly its gonna be a rather boring assortment of weapons to play with. You just remove one of the major ways to tweak weapons for uniqueness, not a good idea.

The longer TTK's are one of the best parts of PS. It allows for strategy, and tactics that you just dont get with most FPS's. Its like with MMO's where those with the super fast paced pvp just cause more frustration while those with longer times where strategy and tactics can come in are much more fun. And those longer fights usually end up with a broader audience, those who are super twitch atleast feel like they can do ok. Maybe not great, but since they arent dieing instantly they arent constantly frustrated and will in turn play more. Somethin i hear from many of the female players and even those male friends who dont usually play FPS's because of their too high twitch factors, PS slows it down enough for them to enjoy while still keeping the pace up enough to be fun.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

It allows for strategy, and tactics that you just dont get with most FPS's.

Please describe these tactics and strategies. I am curious. The only thing I see it doing is being less punishing for running in the open. I concede this is necessary in PS due to the extreme lack of anything resembling cover on its wide open candylands.

Whats the ttk, i wonder, for a suppressor or punisher, or any MA for that matter, vs a rexo/pshield/medpack using/health benefit grunt? 5+ seconds? A grunt with that setup and HA will rarely lose to a scrub in agile and suppressor.