looting "makes it alot more of a balance nightmare" - Page 2

Bags · 2011-07-10, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by MooK

Are you satisfied with just what you've read so far? Wouldn't you want to know more?

Oh, I thought you meant you were thoroughly convinced that it was going to be a strict class system.

Yeah, I'd love to know more. My bad.

Tikuto · 2011-07-10, 01:55 PM

No inventories is perfectly fine. There could have been an alternative to loot-salvaging, however.

An alternative like a simple class-relative indicator on a dead enemy body which basically means to say "You and your Class is able to swap your specific item with this enemy's item".
A 'salvage interface' would appear. Easy-to-use one-click swapping of equipment.
If a dead enemy has already been salvaged? There would be a 'greyed-down' indication.

Salvaging.
simplez!

Mirror · 2011-07-10, 01:57 PM

If I have MA or HA or SA or AV certed then I expect to be able to loot and use common pool or enemy weapons which I can use.

What if I run out of ammo? I dont expect to have to find someone or an equipment term that can give me an ammo pack or a new gun. I want to be able to pick up a gun from the dead guy and use that.

MooK · 2011-07-10, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Oh, I thought you meant you were thoroughly convinced that it was going to be a strict class system.

Yeah, I'd love to know more. My bad.

We just don't know enough about this game. They say a reimagination of PlanetSide, but so many aspects of it are being changed or removed completely. Things that, in my opinion, made PlanetSide--well, PlanetSide. I think that in the coming months they need to have some sort of surveying system in place that asks what players really want, and then tie that into their vision.

Volw · 2011-07-10, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by MooK

We just don't know enough about this game. They say a reimagination of PlanetSide, but so many aspects of it are being changed or removed completely. Things that, in my opinion, made PlanetSide--well, PlanetSide. I think that in the coming months they need to have some sort of surveying system in place that asks what players really want, and then tie that into their vision.

It's still planetside. Mind it's not 2003 any more and they HAVE to bring the gameplay to 2011 standards, whenever you like it or not. (I actually don't like 2011 standards myself, but that's not the point)

I don't see much of a difference between having to change loadout via inventory (PS1) or via cert system (PS2). Sure it doesn't sound to be as flexible, but I don't really see why should we dramatize over every single feature that's changing.

PS1 has 20k subscribers (and that's a very optimistic number) and they would make a huge mistake to listen to community that naturally will be opposed to any and all changes. That is unless they want to sell more than 50k copies.

bkx · 2011-07-10, 02:47 PM

In my opinion, it is perfectly fine if someone jacks an enemy vehicle and gets an advantage over the enemy. Jacking is balanced because it is hard to do, and the risk of jacking a vehicle should be balanced with a reward of using the enemy's tech.

Gandhi · 2011-07-10, 02:55 PM

I think Goku was right, it sounds like this is just a budget/time issue. Maybe it'll be reintroduced in an update later on, because all the problems I've seen mentioned seem solvable.

Even something as simple as always reverting the vehicle or gun to the base model with no upgrades upon hacking/looting should solve the balance issues. Then just keep any specialized faction skills or abilities from applying to hacked vehicles. I mean, it wouldn't make much sense from a logical standpoint, but if that's what it takes to keep hacking and looting then I'd happily look the other way.

MooK · 2011-07-10, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Volw

It's still planetside. Mind it's not 2003 any more and they HAVE to bring the gameplay to 2011 standards, whenever you like it or not. (I actually don't like 2011 standards myself, but that's not the point)

I don't see much of a difference between having to change loadout via inventory (PS1) or via cert system (PS2). Sure it doesn't sound to be as flexible, but I don't really see why should we dramatize over every single feature that's changing.

PS1 has 20k subscribers (and that's a very optimistic number) and they would make a huge mistake to listen to community that naturally will be opposed to any and all changes. That is unless they want to sell more than 50k copies.

You don't think that more people would be willing to play Planetside if there had been continous content and story updates that justified the $15 price tag?

Sifer2 · 2011-07-10, 07:39 PM

Honestly no Inventories screams more than anything else so far that it may be a multiplatform console oriented game. Since a real inventory system is one of the first things to go when you decide to do a console port. Since gamepads suck for managing inventory.

I said it another thread but I fail to see the value in removing inventory. Unless they are just lazy an want it more simplistic for their own ease of balancing. But seriously if it turns out to be 2 weapons at a time, preset amount of ammo for them, an preset limit of grenades/medkits you carry. Then congrats on turning a unique game into another bland modern shooter.

Rbstr · 2011-07-10, 07:46 PM

No inventory doesn't mean you don't have control over what you're equipped with.

Basically you won't have to put ammo boxes into a neat little grid, you'll still be able to change what weapons and equipment you take.
So more of a less-strict Battlesfield system than an RPG system: You pick a class that qualifies you for certain equipment but you can change within the parameters, some things cross over. Planetside2 is just going to be very broad with those parameters.

Now if we end up unable to pick up a dead person's junk when qualified for its use..I think that would be a mistake.
Of course skills could be empire specific...so...I can understand it being a nightmare.

It's one of the things we're going to have to play to really judge. It could go bad or very well.

Sifer2 · 2011-07-10, 08:03 PM

Yes but I still have to ask what the benefit is of the change. I can only think of two at the moment.

1. Makes the console port easier.

2. Makes it easier for idiots.

In the latter case it would seem easy enough to just include preset inventory setups for those too dumb to manage their own. While leaving the system open for everyone else to customize. I mean if I want to sacrifice grenades an medkits for lots of ammo why shouldn't I be allowed?

No inventory also pretty much confirms no Vehicle trunks or big MAX storage. Both of which I thought were really cool an fit the persistent nature of the world. I really want to hear from them why they cut this.

Rbstr · 2011-07-10, 08:07 PM

3. Balance

They'll have more control over certain things...like how many medikits and grenades you have. If frags are more than a pittance of damage this time around, having people carry a billion at a time might be a bad thing. Think of battlefield and ammo-box+grenade spam and how retarded it is. Then remove the need for the ammo box.

A well balanced game is much better experience than dicking around with medikits.
At the same time I anticipate some kind of ammo-amount vs nades or medikits (I hope these are significantly reworked from during combat boosters or simply removed for medic-centric or skill-based things)

CutterJohn · 2011-07-10, 08:11 PM

Keep in mind that losing control of inventory means some things can be more easily balanced. Grenades and such in PS1 could not be powerful, because you would just fill your inventory with them. Making the inventories less freeform allows them to make powerful grenades, because they can severely restrict the amount that can be carried, or even the classes they are available too.

They can make heals easier to give out, as well as revives, since not everyone can carry a med app.

They can make AV actually put a hurt on tanks

Make CE more powerful, but also limited by having to be in an engineer suit or it explodes.

Yeah, its a change, but its a tradeoff, not a loss. Some good gameplay can come of it.

Bags · 2011-07-10, 08:13 PM

Grenades in PS1 were extremely powerful for their inventory size, what game did you play?

Death2All · 2011-07-10, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

... or just make it so you can't use other people's shit that you're not certed for, sort of how it works now?

On that point, we could loot things from other players that we weren't certed for in PS1. We just simply couldn't equip them because we weren't certed for them. If down the the line a talent tree or whatever there's some item you get, why not just not allow the player to use it if they loot it unless they had a similar talent.

Or maybe it's deeper than that because of all the weapon modifications you can supposedly do. Even still, It's a shame that we can't loot other peoples guns. Maybe all of your talents could be made void when equipping someone else's gun and you can temporarily have identical talents to that gun, if you were also certed for it. I don't know, maybe we're looking to deeply into this.