Gameplay: Crew Served Weapons

[Manitou]

Originally Posted by Bags

You just compared flying a plane to loading ammo.

I'm not even going to argue with you.

It's not about arguing, it's about exchanging ideas. You obviously have a different notion about the importance of support and teamwork than he does. That doesn't make him wrong.

It would be the task then of the devs in developing this to include the crew members in the kill-count I would think.

[Robert089]

Originally Posted by Hamma

For me this game is about supporting my outfit/empire. I've done boring jobs in support of my team before but I was having fun, because I was gaming in an awesome game with my comrades.

Food for thought.

This is what I was trying to get at.

Originally Posted by Bags

You just compared flying a plane to loading ammo.

I'm not even going to argue with you.

Well I understand that you are the HA / Mossie bail on to targets sort of guy from your other posts so you wouldn't understand what it is like flying a Galaxy to a massive fight only to drop some guys off then fly away (yes, it is possible to not bail out of aircraft!) to go pick them up again.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Robert089

Well I understand that you are the HA / Mossie bailure sort of guy from your other posts so you wouldn't understand what it is like flying a Galaxy to a massive fight only to drop some guys off then fly away (yes, it is possible to not bail out of aircraft!) to go pick them up again.

I never really certed HA or Mossie when playing (I used the punisher), but I did fly the Galaxy for my outfit a few times. The only reason it isn't not fun is because pretty much everyone in the plane is having the same amount of fun. That is to say none. The interesting part is when everyone bails including the pilot to get stuff done.

I consider galaxy flying to be the equivalent of waitplay in that 99% of the time you fly to a certain height then level and lock max thrust until you're at the waypoint.

Think of ways for multiple people to work together without anyone giving something up. For instance, in Planetside 1 I can heal another player without really giving anything up since I already had healing for myself.

[Volw]

You are comparing 'doing' something vs sitting and playing guitar hero with sandbags.

In PS I've used to almost exclusively fly galaxies and I found crew served weapons in Arma2 mind-numbing.

Healing, repairing or flying feels like doing something beneficial. Carrying mortar shells from one box to another doesn't.


Also, why not propose equally pointless 'jobs' like:
- loader in tanks
- crew chief and co-pilot in galaxies
- cooks, cleaners, carpenters, plumbers etc etc.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Robert089

This is what I was trying to get at.



Well I understand that you are the HA / Mossie bailure sort of guy from your other posts so you wouldn't understand what it is like flying a Galaxy to a massive fight only to drop some guys off then fly away (yes, it is possible to not bail out of aircraft!) to go pick them up again.

Woo, nice personal attacks. I don't play the game the way you play it so I'm a failure.

Good one.

[Soothsayer]

Originally Posted by Volw

Also, why not propose equally pointless 'jobs' like:
- loader in tanks
- crew chief and co-pilot in galaxies
- cooks, cleaners, carpenters, plumbers etc etc.

Persistent world means that the ditch I dug the night before will still be there for me to fill in the next day...

[Robert089]

Originally Posted by Bags

Woo, nice personal attacks. I don't play the game the way you play it so I'm a failure; what are you, twelve?

I never called you a failure, I just know that you like to use the mossie to bail onto your objective where you then use HA, as many players do.

I on the other hand like to take part in group operations and get things done as a team so the more opportunities there are for me to do this the better!

I don't understand how I attacked you personally but if you took offense I appologise.

[Bags]

Originally Posted by Robert089

I never called you a failure, I just know that you like to use the mossie to bail onto your objective where you then use HA, as many players do.

I on the other hand like to take part in group operations and get things done as a team so the more opportunities there are for me to do this the better!

I don't understand how I attacked you personally but if you took offense I appologise.

Bailure = Bail + failure. Just so you know, it's not a compliment.

I'm all for support, since I spent my first two years playing mostly support roles (which is why your assumptions are even more funny). I just personally think the number of people willing to sit there and load ammo for you are extremely limited and it is in no way comparable to flying a plane or driving an AMS.

Originally Posted by Manitou

It's not about arguing, it's about exchanging ideas. You obviously have a different notion about the importance of support and teamwork than he does. That doesn't make him wrong.

It would be the task then of the devs in developing this to include the crew members in the kill-count I would think.

No, I don't. Teamwork is important. Teamwork and support should be rewarded more than it is now. However, loading ammo into other player's guns is boring teamwork that is unnecessary and forced.

[Robert089]

Okay I agree it probably wouldn't be as fun as flying a gal or driving an AMS through enemy territory.

But it is something I know my outfit would utilise. There have been times where I've assaulted bases with my BANK out almost the entire time just repairing the MAX infront of me along with 3 other outfit mates, this is pretty similar to the idea we are discussing and it's a tactic we use regularly and enjoy doing.

E: also I was just using bailure as an adjective for someone who bails, changed it now.

[Bags]

I think it would work better and be more fun for everyone, and be the same amount of teamwork if the gun only required one person to operate and the other guy just watches his back.

[nathanebht]

I usually play Engineer but gonna stick to the crew served weapon topic. Building bunkers, fighting pits and sandbag walls should be kept to another thread.

For this idea, I'm assuming that troops in PS2 will have main and backup hand weapons. How about a modular gatling gun?

Your main rifle is totally useable but looks a little odd. Almost like its part of something bigger. One trooper deploys their rifle which gives them a stable firing base for taking shots. A second, third and fourth trooper are using the same odd rifle and see that more fire power is needed. They attach their weapons to the first trooper's. Each addition ups the fire rate. Troopers 2, 3 and 4 are left with only their secondary weapon but get 1/4th credit for each kill with the gatling.

Of course the guy shooting the gatling is having the most fun. However, the other players aren't tied down with some boring task and the free kills compensate.

[Volw]

Originally Posted by nathanebht

For this idea, I'm assuming that troops in PS2 will have main and backup hand weapons. How about a modular gatling gun?

Your main rifle is totally useable but looks a little odd. Almost like its part of something bigger. One trooper deploys their rifle which gives them a stable firing base for taking shots. A second, third and fourth trooper see that more fire power is needed, they attach their weapons to the first trooper's. Each addition ups the fire rate. Troopers 2, 3 and 4 are left with only their secondary weapon but get 1/4th credit for each kill with the gatling.

[Coreldan]

Perhaps letting the assisting crew members use their own weapons, so that the assisting people maybe just have to "use" the machine gun and as long as they stick close enough, they will provide the bonus and will still be able to fire their own weaponry. Also, as long as being an "assistant", they should get a share of the kills/experience the actual machine gunner does.

I love teamwork and I dont really see this much different to a pilot vs. gunner argument in many vehicles in game.

Just need to tweak stuff to make it worth the while for everyone.

[Warruz]

Originally Posted by Manitou

In this idea I would love to see the concept of the crew served weapon (CSW) be designed into the game. I have a rough draft of how it would work.

The basic weapon could start along the lines of a heavy machine gun. Certainly we are talking a future type weapon so it could be projectile, energy, something fitting the context of the game. The basic weapon system can be operated by one person, but at a substantially reduced capability, either accuracy, ammo amount or some other factor.

The maximum crew could be either two or three people, depending on the direction the devs would like to take it. But the premise would be that any additional crew members increases the accuracy or reload time or ammo lethality to some extent. This would be done by the additional crew member bringing either a tripod, an ammo case, or special ammo to the CSW.

In other words, only one piece can be carried by one person requiring the crew to work together. There could be other enhancements as the certs are filled in like, sandbags, camouflage, vehicle mounting, wall mounting, etc.

You could also possibly attach special barrels that spit fire, or some other type special ammo based on specific certs in that tree.

This is simply a skeleton overview, but applied to a specific cert tree it could provide potential for great teamwork and added mission variables like holding a certain sector for 20 minutes as commanded by the squad leader. This is only limited by what the devs could brain-storm.

I would love fixed positions that you can set up. I would say depending on the weapon such as a MG it should be reload time or clip size or perhaps both.

Heavy Machine guns are traditionally 2 man teams when not supported by say a platform of any sort, one man shooting and another reloading/feeding. What you could do is if its one man you are forced to use a smaller feed or a large clip. This would result in either shorter sustained fire with a heavy gun.

What i would really love to see though is howitzer or rather Light artillery. Moveable by 3 people or a vehicle. 1 person operating it = slow reloads, 2 people operating it gives faster reloads and the gunner to remain on the sites while the other reloads and also giving the loader a chance to swap types on ammunition on the fly.

[Volw]

Originally Posted by Warruz

I would love fixed positions that you can set up. I would say depending on the weapon such as a MG it should be reload time or clip size or perhaps both.

Heavy Machine guns are traditionally 2 man teams when not supported by say a platform of any sort, one man shooting and another reloading/feeding. What you could do is if its one man you are forced to use a smaller feed or a large clip. This would result in either shorter sustained fire with a heavy gun.

What i would really love to see though is howitzer or rather Light artillery. Moveable by 3 people or a vehicle. 1 person operating it = slow reloads, 2 people operating it gives faster reloads and the gunner to remain on the sites while the other reloads and also giving the loader a chance to swap types on ammunition on the fly.

I'd suggest you should buy Arma2, try this out in there, come back after an hour and tell me how much fun it is.