Outfit Specialisations

[BorisBlade]

No WoW's guilds do not level even remotely close to the same speeds. Thats a myth. The caps keep em from just outlevelin each other 100x over but bigger guilds hit those caps everytime, small guilds usually dont even come close. The big guilds will move 2-3x faster than small ones.

If you dont make it so the guilds level very close to each other than you will HIGHLY encourage zerg guilds since power is attatched to leveling. If your choice is zerg guild that levels even only 50% faster or your smaller guild who levels slower and cant do all that cool new stuff, its not hard to see where people will go.

I like guild specialization and levelin but you will definately screw up many social groups and ultimately hurt the game if you dont keep the leveling fairly evenly paced. Weekly or monthly caps that the zerg guild might hit in a day or two for weekly or in a week or so for montly, but even the smaller guilds will still hit the caps with average playtime but maybe not til near the end of the month or week. They dont get stuff quite as fast as teh bigger guilds but overall they stay at the same pace. Best of both worlds. I would stay in a smaller guild if that were the case, but not if it were like WoW guild levelin.

[DviddLeff]

Here is a mock up of a possible layout for outfit specialisation:



Edit: May want to zoom in a bit to read it, not showing up correct size... or click this link to see it direct.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by BorisBlade

No WoW's guilds do not level even remotely close to the same speeds. Thats a myth. The caps keep em from just outlevelin each other 100x over but bigger guilds hit those caps everytime, small guilds usually dont even come close. The big guilds will move 2-3x faster than small ones.

If you dont make it so the guilds level very close to each other than you will HIGHLY encourage zerg guilds since power is attatched to leveling. If your choice is zerg guild that levels even only 50% faster or your smaller guild who levels slower and cant do all that cool new stuff, its not hard to see where people will go.

I like guild specialization and levelin but you will definately screw up many social groups and ultimately hurt the game if you dont keep the leveling fairly evenly paced. Weekly or monthly caps that the zerg guild might hit in a day or two for weekly or in a week or so for montly, but even the smaller guilds will still hit the caps with average playtime but maybe not til near the end of the month or week. They dont get stuff quite as fast as teh bigger guilds but overall they stay at the same pace. Best of both worlds. I would stay in a smaller guild if that were the case, but not if it were like WoW guild levelin.

^the man speaks the truth

[exLupo]

Pardon me while I tablecloth math this out.

To put WoW guilds in perspective, the one I'm in was the first on our server to hit 25 and would probably hit the daily cap by 6-8am every day. I'm guessing probably 60-80 really active players? Might be higher but no more than 100 on a busy day. So assuming 80-100 hitting cap at 1/3rd the day, a solid 30, highly active members per day would keep rolling at the same rate per day. If PS2 used the same rate, that'd probably work out.

I'm more of an "big numbers for everyone!" kind of guy so double it for PS2. WoW guilds are designed to be all inclusive. PS2 outfits look to cater to much more specialized groups. If a minimum of 15 members were fully active, per day, and it kept up the same rate, I think that would be accessible enough.

Ultimately, it really depends on how niche these specializations are. Any flyer/tank or just reavers/lightnings? The more narrow the focus, the faster the leveling rate will need to be. This is all assuming you can't, in time, spend xp in every spec path. That'd be all in favor of zergfits, regardless of daily cap.

[Redshift]

Originally Posted by exLupo

Pardon me while I tablecloth math this out.

To put WoW guilds in perspective, the one I'm in was the first on our server to hit 25 and would probably hit the daily cap by 6-8am every day. I'm guessing probably 60-80 really active players? Might be higher but no more than 100 on a busy day. So assuming 80-100 hitting cap at 1/3rd the day, a solid 30, highly active members per day would keep rolling at the same rate per day. If PS2 used the same rate, that'd probably work out.

.

We were a 10 man raiding guild, we had 10 players that played a lot every day. We didn't make the cap every time, so we had to get a shed load of noobs added that we then muted in guild chat, just to keep up. That is not good game design.

Outfit size should be irrelevent if outfit tree's make gameplay differences

[exLupo]

With an aggregate leveling system, I don't see a way to separate guild size from rate of progression completely. The only way I can see is to make the caps with small numbers in mind.

Sucks for zergfits who want to go fast but, frankly, they can eat it. Design around tight groups. If they really want to do that, they'll leave the daily caps accessible while creating a formal, inter-outfit alliance structure as well.

[Lunarchild]

Originally Posted by exLupo

With an aggregate leveling system, I don't see a way to separate guild size from rate of progression completely. The only way I can see is to make the caps with small numbers in mind.

Sucks for zergfits who want to go fast but, frankly, they can eat it. Design around tight groups. If they really want to do that, they'll leave the daily caps accessible while creating a formal, inter-outfit alliance structure as well.

I think a better way would be to divide the amount of progression made by the amount of people in the outfit. Or a portion of that. That way more active outfits level faster than less active ones, but size no longer matters.

[exLupo]

That leads to outfits kicking members who have to go irl for a while. Maybe divide the progress by the number of active members per day? Then one person having a rl emergency or 50 that got invited only to unsub, no harm either way.

[Lunarchild]

Originally Posted by exLupo

That leads to outfits kicking members who have to go irl for a while. Maybe divide the progress by the number of active members per day? Then one person having a rl emergency or 50 that got invited only to unsub, no harm either way.

That's why I also suggested a portion. It would not be that big of an issue if 50% - 75% would be required to be active. Still, I like your solution as well

[Trolltaxi]

Planetside (1) is still somewhat alive and that is because of the outifts that grew out of the boundries of the game. If the new outfit system forces outfits to keep tight and all his members must be active, it will be counterproductive in the long run, as outfits must leave behind their inactive players. That won't help building the community and without community the game looses the players too. Without mass players, PS is nothing.

Some of the outfits have put a lots of effort to train their new members. If the new outfit system doesn't encourage teaching (or "punishes" it with slower advance due to the less effective members) the game will loose a significant part of the playerbase again. See above for results.

What would stop 2-10 men to form "outfits" to get all the benefits fast with their 1337 individual playing (and possibly advancing fast on the tree)? What is the purpose of having hundreds of squad sized mini-outfits (even allied) if we could have some huge forces under that same leadership.

Smallfits are like mercenary companies or bands of bandits selling their steel to anyone. An outfit - in my opinion - is something way bigger, a force that can act independently having all the resources to do that. Not just a specialized squad like the "10 men raiding guild" Redshift have mentioned.

[Chaff]

Originally Posted by DviddLeff

So guys, what do we think outfits will be able to specialise in to customise and improve their outfits?

Higby I believe has already said that:

1. Outfits can specialise in certain classes, unlocking both visual benefits and upgrades for all its members if they choose that class to play.
2. Outfits can increase a member limitation cap.
3. Outfits have some very cool stuff coming.

In my upgrade project I suggested a great number of improvements for outfits (it was one of the first large articles I wrote regarding PS game development). You can see it in its entirety here, but here are the bullet points:

First general changes for all outfits:

• Outfit credit system for purchasing things (resources fill this role in PS2)
• Applications to join (if there are no officers on players can still apply and get accepted later)
• Automatic promotions (for BR/CR, etc)
• Automatic demotions (griefing, TKs, etc)
• Rank permission customisation
• Outfit alliances
• Outfit leadership/officer chat
• Performance graphs (kills, XP, captures, etc)
• Outfit mergers
• Events log (see who has been kicking/promoting/recruiting)

Now here are the parts I suggest which can be unlocked via specialisation:

• Outfit bunkers/outposts/bases (purchased with resources)
• Naval (hover) Vehicles (purchased with resources)
• In game outfit adverts (using the TV screens)
• Outfit Divisions (would allow multiple specialisations in an outfit)
• Outfit rank decals (show off your rank in the outfit)
• Outfit leaders able to give out medals to their members
• Outfit armour customisation (sounds like it will be in PS2)

LIKE IT !

[Sovereign]

Originally Posted by Lunarchild

That's why I also suggested a portion. It would not be that big of an issue if 50% - 75% would be required to be active. Still, I like your solution as well

To further this I think it should vary and be contingent on the outfit, for instance if its a 'hardcore' outfit then obviously they would want the lesser percentage.

[DviddLeff]

With the increased population capacity of the new games continents, I really hope we see companies as well as platoons as in game organisational structures.

I also hope we see more large (ie more than 30 players on at a time) coordinated outfits emerging, so we see some proper strategy emerging.

[Chaff]

Originally Posted by Lunarchild

I think a better way would be to divide the amount of progression made by the amount of people in the outfit. Or a portion of that. That way more active outfits level faster than less active ones, but size no longer matters.

I think this approach will minimize zergfits from dominating the landscape or gameplay. An outfit should progress based on activity/productivity per memebr online that day. If you're in a small outfit, it should only penalize your progress if you're all a bunch of incompetent players (noobs ?)

Established Zerg-ish Sized outfits live off recruiting newbies...and being around veteran players is the best way to lessen ones learning curve in the game. I am NOT against BIG Outfits. Sheer Outfit member numbers should do nothing - but help increase the chances of launching epic raids - this should be the ONE primary benefit of being in big/huge outfits - and it is compelling enough to ensure most big Outfits stay big and influencial.

Huge outfits can more easily sustain a huge ego(asshat).....cuz newbs won't know better. Keep the game BALANCED - that means don't punish small Outfits - they're good for the game. Everyone needs room to find their role(s) .... and moreso, Outfit variety will help prevent players leaving the game. The more players that choose to stay - the better things should be.

PS2 should do what's needed to help increase the chances that each player can find a good home - that will eventually become family/friends.

[Chaff]

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

Planetside (1) is still somewhat alive and that is because of the outifts that grew out of the boundries of the game. If the new outfit system forces outfits to keep tight and all his members must be active, it will be counterproductive in the long run, as outfits must leave behind their inactive players. That won't help building the community and without community the game looses the players too. Without mass players, PS is nothing.

Some of the outfits have put a lots of effort to train their new members. If the new outfit system doesn't encourage teaching (or "punishes" it with slower advance due to the less effective members) the game will loose a significant part of the playerbase again. See above for results.

What would stop 2-10 men to form "outfits" to get all the benefits fast with their 1337 individual playing (and possibly advancing fast on the tree)? What is the purpose of having hundreds of squad sized mini-outfits (even allied) if we could have some huge forces under that same leadership.

Smallfits are like mercenary companies or bands of bandits selling their steel to anyone. An outfit - in my opinion - is something way bigger, a force that can act independently having all the resources to do that. Not just a specialized squad like the "10 men raiding guild" Redshift have mentioned.

Got it. I'm revising my opinion. I understated the BENEFITS of the BIG outfit(s).

"An outfit should progress based on activity/productivity per memebr online that day"
(I still like this as perhaps the driving force behind the advancement of Outfits)
.