Gameplay: Flight VTOL - Page 2

BorisBlade · 2011-07-25, 03:08 PM

Umm....helicopters. The current ps1 vehicles are all heli style vehicles not vtols/planes.

Helicopters act just like reavers. They arent "fixing" things by changin how they fly they are just changin them to planes instead of helicopters. (although i havent heard that all aircraft will be "planes" they may still have the heli style but with more realistic physics/controls)

Heli style vehicles need to be in the game in some fashion. Attack choppers would be much more effective, versatile, and fun than just a flyby airplane which is not only boring but the damage output has to be so stupidly high that it makes it rather lame and you need fire-and-forget style lock-on weapons to make that work which isnt really fun gameplay wise. There are other ways to make it work tho, so not countin it out.

Honestly they should stay as heli style vehicles with a few that fly like planes/VToL's, just make em much harder to control. I've played many games with helicopters that took skill to fly well. Noobs just literally crashed and burned.

And air should be scary to infantry. If im on foot and i see an Apache gunship comin up on me, then someone is gonna be cashin in on my life insurance policy shortly.

But by the same token, infantry should be able to fight back. Infantry AA etc can balanced that. Also tweaking damage of the weapons of the aircraft to be less effective vs infantry unless thats what that vehicle is designed for. (such as the mossie which cant kill vehicles but does well versus infantry)

Sirisian · 2011-07-25, 09:51 PM

Yeah this thread was suggesting adding limited VTOL to all the planes and getting rid of the unlimited hover with a gameplay mechanic.

I don't think the game needs helicopter like vehicles that can hover forever. They end up being annoying like a mossy or reaver that sits behind a mountain picking off units. I prefer that planes have to pretty much continuously go forward, but have the choice to hover for limited times.

The skill-tree could effect that duration actually.

BorisBlade · 2011-07-25, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by Sirisian

Yeah this thread was suggesting adding limited VTOL to all the planes and getting rid of the unlimited hover with a gameplay mechanic.

I don't think the game needs helicopter like vehicles that can hover forever. They end up being annoying like a mossy or reaver that sits behind a mountain picking off units. I prefer that planes have to pretty much continuously go forward, but have the choice to hover for limited times.

The skill-tree could effect that duration actually.

A mossie or reaver that sits behind a hill and picks off vehicles? Not sure what you mean but never had that problem. If they sit still anywhere they can get a shot they are sittin ducks to AA. They are balanced for the most part, other than the one man aspect of reavers. Sitting still often means death or atleast you are gonna lose 80-90% of your health before you get away.

And yeah we need some kind of chopper style vehicles. Make em more difficult to control, more like a real chopper instead of a hovering camera, and preferably make em require a second person to gun.

The limit to hover time is fine by me, but as long as the minimum forward speed isnt too high so you dont have to just do boring strafe runs which require obnoxious fire and forget high damage lock on weapons.

Hovering is never really an issue other than campin doors here and there, and unless they just have a ton of other support, those aircraft will get shot down in short order anwyay. 1AA max will drop a reaver no prob, and you can pretty much guarantee that we will get some infantry AA too.

Chopper style vehicles add to the gameplay. Just balance em right. Maybe drop the afterburner. If they want to hover they have to work like a real chopper. So they cant afterburn away if they stupidly go to where AA is gonna start beatin on em. They have to work with the terrain like a real chopper. Good firepower, good maneuverability, hover capability and preferably a gunner slot to help with weapon accuracy and balance. But lack the burst damage and other perks of a standard plane style craft, far less speed, no afterburner etc. Possibly even limiting the rockets on teh chopper similar to a GG's ammo pool. Meaning that camping doesnt work well cause you run outta ammo after awhile. I can see puttin both types of craft in and makin em each have their own niche.

NewSith · 2011-07-26, 10:23 AM

Or, mb this, why not

:

CutterJohn · 2011-07-27, 08:08 AM

Can someone explain *why* hovering is bad?

NewSith · 2011-07-27, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Can someone explain *why* hovering is bad?

because easy aircraft xyz movent > xz ground movement.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-27, 11:59 AM

Still doesn't explain anything.

Sirisian · 2011-07-27, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Can someone explain *why* hovering is bad?

It's not bad in limited amounts. I just personally felt that the planes should act more like planes in the new game and even less like cameras. The system I described still means you can hover. You just can't perpetually hover allowing for easy mossy farming or rocket spam. It encourages Reavers (and liberators) to make passes over their target.

Didn't realize people would be against it. I guess if you used the hover tactic a lot to attack vehicles then it seems unnecessary to force you to fly another way.

CutterJohn · 2011-07-27, 02:15 PM

No, I don't care about hovering, and never flew much anyway. I just recognize its a game, and an mmo, and you'll have to take your hands off the controls from time to time. Landing everytime you wanted to chat with someone, or check the map, or deal with some menu would be annoying.

As for hoverspam, whatever. They caught you out in the open with your pants down. Now I'd be fine with infantry having tools to make that inadvisable in front of other infantry, but I was never annoyed by it when it happened to me. Just part of the game.

Peacemaker · 2011-07-27, 03:17 PM

The aircraft in PS 1 were all VTOL aircraft. They did not behave like helicopters at all. Nosing over a reaver produced no lateral or forward motion, you just aimed down. It is yet to be seen what PS2 will be but I'm going to bet its going to be a realistic VTOL system, which will allow hovering. While hovering nosing over will make you decend and accelerate blah blah blah. Probably a button to take u our of hover mode and into flight mode, with a lengthy delay to switch. Flight mode will probably feel a lot like flying a plane.

FIREk · 2011-07-27, 03:33 PM

Aircraft in PS1 were nothing.

"Piloting" one was so easy a trained monkey could do it. "Flying camera" is the perfect description of their "flight model".

I'm sure PS2's aircraft will be able to hover, but doing so won't be as brainless as it was in PS1. You will most likely have to attack in passes, rather than being a hovering turret with strafing capabilities.

MasterChief096 · 2011-07-28, 03:13 PM

Its a sci-fi game. I hope there are hovering vehicles in ADDITION to planes that must fly forward and can maybe only hover for a limited time/not hover at all.

If they are balanced right, there's no big deal to it.

IMO its not that unbalanced in PS1 right now. If there are three infantry vs. one mosquito and at least two of the infantry have AV weapons, the mossie will die. If you are a lone grunt or maybe with another dude, and you have nothing to counter aircraft just infantry weapons, and you're all alone, you deserve to die to an aircraft that finds you, its just the way of war.

Its been stated that infantry will also be able to unlock AA weapons that are used while in infantry roles, so this will further add to balance.

I just think in a sci-fi setting we should have all sorts of variety of vehicles, ground-hovering, air-hovering, water-based, etc. It adds a lot to immersion in the battle and gives people more gameplay options. They key is to just get the balance right.