TR Max lockdown - Not again! - Page 2

Lartnev · 2011-10-01, 07:16 AM

There are already a few things in Planetside 2 that make lockdown more viable:
1) The TTK of infantry will be quicker (presumably the TTK of a MAX unit too...)
2) No 3rd person view
3) No freeform inventory (no carrying around a decimator just in case)
4) Improved netcode

I want to see lockdown again, it was the coolest animation in the original game and the principle of being able to dish out devastating firepower at the expense of mobility is a fair trade in my opinion.

kaffis · 2011-10-01, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Redshift

You're VS of course you liked lockdown, 2-3 of any MAX guarding a door held it forever, the difference being that VS and NC MAXes would not be standing in the exact same place every time you popped round the corner to fire a deci

I'm NC. I would've traded shield for lockdown any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

I'll admit my dirty little secret. I had a TR character on another server just so I could pull Bursters and Dual Cyclers.

Long live lockdown! It's fine if you think the specifics weren't quite tweaked to a proper balance. But objecting to the very notion of lockdown, or claiming that "in a FPS, stationary = death" -- get your heads out of your asses.

Sure, in an FPS, stationary = death if you're facing overwhelming odds in the first place. If the fight's pretty even, there's nothing wrong with stationary, provided it offers good advantages. And even in a 1v1, stationary = death isn't the case if stationary provides you with the firepower to melt the other guy before he can dance around you.

I never had a problem backing against a wall and locking down with my Burster -- I had a good 120 degrees of aerial killing field, and I owned that 120 degrees. It was mine, no ifs, ands, or buts. Likewise, locking a DC down in defense of a generator, or a hallway. So long as the lag wasn't raping me, whatever came through the door died a painful death in very short order.

LZachariah · 2011-10-01, 08:45 AM

Honestly, I'm thrilled that they're including the pylons for Terran MAXes, and I'm Vanu straight through to my heart. Not only is lockdown an iconic aspect of the Terran MAXes, but it exemplifies their strategies of overwhelming force. Now, I never played Terran, but I hear people's concerns about the vulnerability inherent in locking downs with the pylons. The answer? MAKE LOCKDOWN MORE POWERFUL. This is a fundamental and badass aspect of Terran MAXes, but I want to make sure that everyone is happy with it. Is a 130% damage and rate of fire increase not enough? No problem, make it 180%, or 200%. Whatever makes it worthwhile. Make it that a pylon'd MAX needs to be very cautious, but that it's a hurricane of death to anything facing 150 degrees in front of it.

T-Ray and Higby have been speaking about the EXTENSIVE balancing-work they're doing; I believe they can get this one right.

~Zachariah

Brusi · 2011-10-01, 08:52 AM

Sweet, was hoping max lockdown was coming back. Organised leapfrog of 3 or more DC's was an awesome way to take a tower!

Traak · 2011-10-01, 09:08 AM

Lock down is absolutely necessary. A big part of why to play TR, for me. I am intelligent enough to factor in immobility when considering a position.

TR MAXes without lockdown is like NC maxes without shields. T'aint right. You think I cared about being locked down when getting killed? Ha! With my framerates and the people dancing around me with their HA, it didn't make a difference. It DID make a huge difference in how fast the cheaters could fly off miraculously unscathed after receiving a full clip, or more, however.

Lockdown. It's a TR thing. You wouldn't understand.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-10-01, 09:09 AM

Focus seems to be on the DC here, the burster and pounder were both MONSTERS when locked down. I really enjoyed using the TR maxes when I got the chance though the DC did feel a bit weak. Lockdown is fine, tune the DC and there probably won't be any problems.

PrISM · 2011-10-01, 09:13 AM

Just remove MAXes altogether and the problem is solved.

Azren · 2011-10-01, 10:02 AM

In the good old' days of PS the lockdown maxes were beasts. I remember that noone (I repeat: noone) was able to get past 3-4 locked down maxes in a tower or backdoor. We were shooting everyone in sight while getting constantly repaired from behind.

Those were the times when not everyone had AV and/or SA.

morf · 2011-10-01, 10:10 AM

Being TR I am really skeptical about this one. But on thing is for sure:

If lockdown is included, it needs to be PURE GRAVY. In other words, a mobile TR max needs to have the same TTK as a mobile NC or VS max. Then the lockdown buff is just a bonus. You aren't always defending and there are times when you need to be mobile. Don't force us to be locked down to compete, make it a true powerup commeasurate with the sacrifice of mobility.

So for example if the VS or NC abilities make their max 30 percent more effective through mobility or shields or jumping (I know this is arbitrary and subjective, I'm throwing out a number for illustration) but point being, in this case lockdown would need to be more than a 30% increase to keep on par with other abilities PLUS compensate for the loss of mobility, which the others don't have to sacrifice. And yes I know the nc shield and not shooting while its up also is a downside and should be accounted for.

DaSwede · 2011-10-01, 10:29 AM

The thing that always killed you as a locked down max was the time it took to deploy / release the anchors, that needs to be sped up.

And anyone who claims that locked down maxes holds a door forever have never played a TR recently.

I remember when a locked down burster actually could shred air and live even if fired on first. Now with the lower splash damage you need to get a head start or you will be looking for a response point. The capacitor bubble was a poor implementation to try and make a non locked down max semi dangerous. Mobility is and always will be key and having to sacrifice it needs to be rewarded way more than it is now.

Sent from my EVO

Bags · 2011-10-01, 10:50 AM

I loved lockdown. It made me feel like a bad ass.

Though I never used the AI max sooo... I'm a little biased.

Raymac · 2011-10-01, 11:21 AM

I thought lockdown was probably the weakest of the 3 max abilities, but it certainly had it's advantages. I think it could be left in and balanced a bit better, or maybe TR maxes will still have lockdown AND overdrive. Basically, if you stayed locked down after you took 1 deci to the face, then you deserved to die.

Redshift · 2011-10-01, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by LZachariah

Is a 130% damage and rate of fire increase not enough? No problem, make it 180%, or 200%.

~Zachariah

Thing is you can't balance it, either it's shit when not locked down or bat shit loco when locked down.

Overdrive combated that a bit by forcing to be short bursts of higher RoF, but realistically any special which bumps the TTK is going to cause the MAX to be balanced according to that, hence when it's not using it it sucks.

Graywolves · 2011-10-01, 01:31 PM

I've used MAX's for roughly 8 years now.....

I'll start off with saying I like lockdown but... Compared to having a shield or being able to jump over someone's head it's just not that good. Many times I get someone that pokes inside the door for less than a second to pop off a deci at me and at that point I can either move away for repairs or hope I got 2-3 engineers behind me....

I do like lockdown and think it can work but the TR Max's need to be able to actually fight other MAX's evenly 1v1 instead of needing to lockdown just to be on par. Even then you're not going to win, NC MAX shields and walks behind you, VS Max jumps over your head.

Personally I feel a design that relies on you having numbers and coordinated force is just bad. Not simply because it forces teamwork for success but because if the NC and VS aren't designed for that - they are able to be more effective when they do simply because their equipment is more efficient on the individual level. (this paragraph was directed to "TR is designed for strength in numbers etc.)

Lastly, we have a jetpack class that is balanced through weaker weaponry as they will be able to jump onto cliffs and meneuver through lots of rigid terrain. So we can conclude that terrain will be made with this in mind correct? Wouldn't the VS Jetpack MAX break the balance as they would be the only empire able to easily bring MAX suits to these locations that the other empires can only rely on light assualt?

If Lockdown is going to stay it needs to actually be beneficial instead of a small speed increase... Some form of a defensive boost is required and that makes balancing really tricky. It's hard to keep lockdown in and not make TR MAX's crap.

Captain1nsaneo · 2011-10-01, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Graywolves

Lastly, we have a jetpack class that is balanced through weaker weaponry as they will be able to jump onto cliffs and meneuver through lots of rigid terrain. So we can conclude that terrain will be made with this in mind correct? Wouldn't the VS Jetpack MAX break the balance as they would be the only empire able to easily bring MAX suits to these locations that the other empires can only rely on light assualt?

It will only be like how VS maxes get on top of towers now so there's not much to fear. In fact, VS maxes will be less deadly up on top due to engies not being able to fly (I think).

Lock down should give a defensive bonus but no overdrive. Bursters as they are now are the only AA maxes that can get reliable kills on reavers as overdrive lets them dish out enough damage to kill them before they get outside of range. The skys are always clearer above TR bases than they are over VS or NC as the ambush tactics that aircraft depend on count for far less with overdrive.
Would lockdown suffice if it also regenerated armor? That would increase survivability (say 4 decis) while also giving lowered TTK in trade for movement. The goal is as always to make something that's not an unstoppable machine but a significant threat that takes skill to use.