Freemium or cash shop?

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by dsi

Eve Online's skill system is amazing, no complaints if they rip it directly (and maybe lower the time scales)

They said you can just buy skills in PS2. There's no incentive for them to lower the timers. Waitplay is the number one system that F2P games utilize to drive people to the cash shop.

Originally Posted by PC Gamer UK December Issue

Microtransaction upgrades simply re-specialize your class or unlock different combat options, all of which are available through playing the game and queuing up skills to be trained passively over time: much as players already do in EVE Online.

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

My dude learns how to operate railguns at the same rate whether or not he actually uses them? That's really stupid. I should get large bonuses to my training by actively participating in combat with railguns.

That's my preferred system. That is a tree of experience where you level weapons/vehicles to unlock features that then cost small amounts of resources that can only be earned in the game.

This whole direction that SOE is taking seems to go over a few people's heads. "I can just play for free!" while I view it as "yeah but there are people that will just buy all the upgrades right off the bat" "doesn't matter the upgrades do nothing!" "then why would anyone buy them" "well... oh they will do something I guess, but not much" "then what's the incentive if they don't do much?" and so on. That kind of logic shows you the general direction of incentive and cash shop buffs that trade-offs will take.

[Grimster]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Cash shop for aesthetics. Subscription for faster advancement and other small, beneficial, non-exclusive perks.

I think that's the model they're considering anyway.

Second that that is in my opinion a good path for a subscription model to take.

[Zulthus]

Don't say subscription for faster advancement, say subscription for normal advancement. Cash shop is fine for AESTHETICS only IMO.

[sylphaen]

I liked the reserves concept in PS1. Basically, you could still have a functional character though very limited and that would depend on other players for what it did not specialize in. But you did have fun an would still play a significant role in battles.

So I wouldn't mind something similar with a monhtly subscription (i.e. having more optionsn less restricting skill progression, versatility in recerting, etc...)

I loved levelling in PS1 and getting my certs. As a comparison, I do hate the BF unlock system.

ANyways, just an opinion... Essentially, I believe that players should feel tempted positively to the idea of getting a sub, not feel forced to do it to stay competitive or enjoy the game. How it's implemented matters less than the concept behind.

[TRex]

I envision it to go something like this :

Cosmetics available via cash shop ,or won via in-game events etc , time served unlocks. For everyone ,sub or no sub

Sub player (or premium player) all classes unlocked , all trees unlocked ,natural progression through game .Can make maximum of 3 toons per server.

Ftp player -can level to BR20 'theoretically' . Classes limited to light armour ,heavy armour . Can make a maximum of 1 toon per server . Max ,infil, medic, engineer available to buy as extras. Cert levelling available while playing , off line levelling available via unlock purchaseable from store.

While playing /killing /capturing stuff you earn credits (non-tradeable) according to amount of prime resource your faction needs and acquires.Credits are shared for the account.Premium players get an allocation of 500 credits per month as part of sub. Or credits could be unlocked via the merit list ie 10 for bronze ,15 for silver, 20 for gold ,25 for auraxium for each merit line . Exploration rewards merits , etc .

The 'theoretical' part above (for ftp player) is that in order to level and gain enough credits to get to br20 and max out most of your skills ,you will probably need to level a toon on all 3 servers to gain enough points for your 'main' character to spend them . Ofc , credits are available from the store at $ x.xx per 1000.

Store exclusives :

Cert reset token :made a mistake with your cert tree ? or don't want to be a medic any more and want to specialise as a prowler driver? Buy the cert reset token for 95 credits
Squad leader unlock :tired of being the monkey and feel your inner desire to tell others what to do ? then unlock the real Napoleon within yourself and unlock squad leader in the cert tree for 595 credits.
Cert acceleration token : earn double cert points for 1hr /4hrs/ 24hrs at 95credits/ 360 credits/ 2000credits respectively.
Infiltrator always wanted to be the sneaky type? infiltrator class unlock now on special offer ,20% off for 595 credits
Max ,Medic , Engineer all available for 685 credits.
Extra character Unlock unlocks 1 extra char slot on all servers for your account 995 credits


A lot of the above is tongue-in-cheek .But it is a ftp model .You can do everything in the game for free , but it takes a long time to have access to everything.You don't buy power , just the ability to access what everyone who has a sub has , as a carrot.
Even things like the cert acceleration token may be of interest to subscription players , there will be many who want to be the first on a server, or get everything to max asap to be on the leaderboard etc.

The plus' to this model is that anyone can download the game and run around as a grunt and have fun for no charge . It fills the servers up with 'fodder', and even vets may run disposable 'farming'toons on another server just to earn credits for their main to spend elsewhere.
As a business model , in general the best subscrition players are those that don't play :the company gets paid every month and they dont add to the server stress or whine on forums etc.But they earn credits per month for 'existing' and get offline progression for not playing.
Ftp is different , you want them to play as much as possible , and be tempted to look at the store as often as possible. It fills servers , and a game like PS needs a big population all the time so everyone can unlock shit and gain more credits by acquiring resources or finishing off their 500 player in one lifetime merit reward etc

[Traak]

Give those of us who are so inclined the opportunity to have some kind of inexpensive but hard to counterfeit premium toy/shirt/box/whatever for coughing up $150 or more to get this sucker started right.

The disease that is the "free hackerbase" will probably do its best to drown the game in hacks, cheats, exploits, and people playing with 20 computers at once.

Make everyone pay no less than 50 dollars, and the account that is purchased can never be un-banned once it is banned. So, every time you get caught cheating, you are banned, and you gotta spend another 50 dollars to get in.

Free. Anything that is free eventually has its value dragged down to below free by the scum who exploit it.

[basti]

The entire topic is way to complicated to put it in a poll.

I still suggest that SOE just tells us what they want to put in the cash shop at what price BEFORE they actually do it, and collect feedback that way. Just do everything to avoid the Eve Monocle issue.

[Senyu]

Originally Posted by basti

The entire topic is way to complicated to put it in a poll.

I still suggest that SOE just tells us what they want to put in the cash shop at what price BEFORE they actually do it, and collect feedback that way. Just do everything to avoid the Eve Monocle issue.

Ya really. All we have now is speculation based on other games models. We don't know exactly what PS2 and were battling on the worst and best case scenarios of F2P. Personally Im not for it but hey, least give PS2 chance to pitch what they have in mind before the real flaming/support happens.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Cash shop for aesthetics. Subscription for faster advancement and other small, beneficial, non-exclusive perks.

I think that's the model they're considering anyway.

What exactly is the difference between a $15 dollar subscription for increased experience gains, and a cash shop that sells you an increased experience gain buff for $15 that lasts a month.

Does calling the exact same result by a different term magically make it 'not selling power'?

Originally Posted by Zulthus

Freemium, cash shops are bad. Why can't we just have a normal game where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by skill?

Why can't we have a normal fps where how fast someone advances/how powerful they are is determined by their skill and their skill alone, with no arbitrary restrictions?

You know why. To draw out the game content. Dangle the carrot. Keep people playing, and hence paying, for longer.



Pay for power? So? Take the money you would have to spend on a normal subscription to simply play, and buy said power. Now everyones evened up. Cept now you have the option of playing for free, even if at a disadvantage, rather than not playing at all. That sounds familiar. It could be.. They've done this exact thing before. In PS1. You know, that fodderside program everyone loved.

Theres absolutely no difference between premium + freemium, and a store. The store is just a bit more granular.

[Xyntech]

Don't bring reason into a debate like this.

[Bags]

What is the difference?

[Baron]

Originally Posted by dsi

...industry grade lubricant...

For some reason, I can't stop thinking about this. Mmmmmmm lubricant

[Hamma]

EVE's skill system is great, but it's a bit to long. It's impossible to catch anyone who has been playing for years.

PlanetSide 2's system while similar should not be as involved and long as EVEs.

[Lonehunter]

I really like the subscription method for a "premium" service, but still want a shop for items that don't affect game balance

Originally Posted by Hamma

EVE's skill system is great, but it's a bit to long. It's impossible to catch anyone who has been playing for years.

PlanetSide 2's system while similar should not be as involved and long as EVEs.

I was just thinking about this. They've all ready suggested a skill tree could take up to a year to fully maximize. I hope there aren't too many new people who join a year after release and feel like that's too big of a gap. That's why I think a low lvl having a shot at a vet should still be an important thing

[EASyEightyEight]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

What exactly is the difference between a $15 dollar subscription for increased experience gains, and a cash shop that sells you an increased experience gain buff for $15 that lasts a month.

Does calling the exact same result by a different term magically make it 'not selling power'?

It's not selling power, it's selling time. Don't confuse the two. In life everything has two prices: time and money. No exceptions. Whether or not one pays for a 30 day "skill training reduction" through a cash shop consumable or through a hard subscription is irrelevant. What's being offered is money in exchange for time. Instead of spending 365 days maxing out a tree, someone whom pays out $180 might max out a tree in 280 days. Could be 180 days, nearly halving the time, which even I would consider a little over the top, since it wouldn't be JUST speeding up leveling that they might be selling, but also shorter respawn times, increased resource income, etc. Nothing over the top beneficial (5 seconds shaved off here, an extra 10% income there,) but in an accumulative manner, one should notice the benefits.

This game will not survive without a good chunk of players providing a steady cash flow. Relying solely on single sale aesthetic items will not provide that cash flow, unless it's a gachapon/roulette stuffed full of random, useless/common crap no one wants and they find enough gambling addicts.

Maybe one would prefer to see Coca-Cola ads on billboards all over the continents? Doubt it. SOE needs to make money somehow, even if through selling side-grades or what one may deem "selling power." There won't be a PS2 for long without them. They're going F2P to keep the numbers up so we don't see PS1 all over again. Thus, they have to make their profits through other means.