Bailing mechanics - Page 2

dm Akolyte · 2011-10-29, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mirror

Lots of players will have an opinion on this as Im sure they will have been farmed by many players bailing from aircraft or just aircraft in general.

I'll just point this out. It doesnt matter what is improved, nerfed, buffed, simplified, given out for free or removed from the game because bad or average players will still get farmed by the better players. Rather than complaining about it do the right thing and focus on improving.

Funny how this argument invariably comes from the people who abuse the mechanics.

Traak · 2011-10-29, 03:40 PM

Go one better. If you bail and your vehicle is blown up within five seconds, you die also, whether your vehicle hit a cliff or whatever. You die.

Or, any vehicle that is bailed from immediately alters its trajectory, or better yet, decons, and becomes incapable of harming anyone. I think I like this one very well.

TRex · 2011-10-29, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by dm Akolyte

Funny how this argument invariably comes from the people who abuse the mechanics.

He wasn't making an arguement , just stating a fact .Playing the game isn't abusing anything.
I'll put it another way , the likes of Mirror hot drops from a mossie onto a tower and he stands a pretty good chance of taking quite a few folk out that he meets in said tower , maybe even hacking and capping the tower.
Turn that around and someone drops from a mossie onto a tower that Mirror happens to be in at the time. I'd say there's a pretty good chance said dropper never makes it to the cc ,probably barely through top doorway.
There's a big difference , and its not the mechanics .

Bags · 2011-10-29, 04:27 PM

It's because Mirror is dirty VS and their armor blinds everyone.

dm Akolyte · 2011-10-29, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by TRex

He wasn't making an arguement , just stating a fact .Playing the game isn't abusing anything.
I'll put it another way , the likes of Mirror hot drops from a mossie onto a tower and he stands a pretty good chance of taking quite a few folk out that he meets in said tower , maybe even hacking and capping the tower.
Turn that around and someone drops from a mossie onto a tower that Mirror happens to be in at the time. I'd say there's a pretty good chance said dropper never makes it to the cc ,probably barely through top doorway.
There's a big difference , and its not the mechanics .

Yeah, abusing was the wrong word.

Point is, the mossie is *already* broken as an infantry farming unit if used correctly, and bailing basically adds another life on top of that.

And the people who disagree will nearly ALWAYS be the people who reap heaps and heaps of kills with this tactic and think it's just because they are SO MUCH better than anyone else who plays.

Mirror · 2011-10-29, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by dm Akolyte

Yeah, abusing was the wrong word.

Point is, the mossie is *already* broken as an infantry farming unit if used correctly, and bailing basically adds another life on top of that.

And the people who disagree will nearly ALWAYS be the people who reap heaps and heaps of kills with this tactic and think it's just because they are SO MUCH better than anyone else who plays.

You should get together with Figgy as he goes on about this aswell.

Going by your logic all vehicles should either be removed or once you enter any vehicle you cant leave because it would give the user a second life.

If you get farmed by vehicles then you are doing something wrong. This is the same for the people that complain about the aircraft from PS1, if you get farmed by aircraft then go cert AA max, take AV with you or use a vehicle to travel.

I have always wondered if the people that complained about aircraft are the people that think it was awesome to footzerg in agile and then rage at the person who killed them who was using an aircraft.

SgtMAD · 2011-10-29, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mirror

You should get together with Figgy as he goes on about this aswell.

Going by your logic all vehicles should either be removed or once you enter any vehicle you cant leave because it would give the user a second life.

If you get farmed by vehicles then you are doing something wrong. This is the same for the people that complain about the aircraft from PS1, if you get farmed by aircraft then go cert AA max, take AV with you or use a vehicle to travel.

I have always wondered if the people that complained about aircraft are the people that think it was awesome to footzerg in agile and then rage at the person who killed them who was using an aircraft.

Dude,i know you and i have never really gotten "along" during PS but I do agree with what you have to say most of the time on these forums

now screw you. LOL

Tell Dart hi

dm Akolyte · 2011-10-29, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by Mirror

You should get together with Figgy as he goes on about this aswell.

Going by your logic all vehicles should either be removed or once you enter any vehicle you cant leave because it would give the user a second life.

If you get farmed by vehicles then you are doing something wrong. This is the same for the people that complain about the aircraft from PS1, if you get farmed by aircraft then go cert AA max, take AV with you or use a vehicle to travel.

I have always wondered if the people that complained about aircraft are the people that think it was awesome to footzerg in agile and then rage at the person who killed them who was using an aircraft.

Right, because only one infantry build should be usable outdoors.

If you weren't *actively hunting armor* the entire time you were oudoors you were merely prey.

Even if you *specialized* to hunt mossies (as a grunt) you had about a 50/50 chance against one... if they were mediocre. If they were *good* you were boned most of the time.

Mossies were (are):
the most effective infantry killers
the most effective a2a platform
the most effective single person transport
the most effective scouting platform

The faster and more mobile a vehicle is, the more powerful a bailout mechanic comes for them.

Bailouts were just another broken feature of the mossie.

xSlideShow · 2011-10-30, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by dm Akolyte

Right, because only one infantry build should be usable outdoors.

If you weren't *actively hunting armor* the entire time you were oudoors you were merely prey.

Even if you *specialized* to hunt mossies (as a grunt) you had about a 50/50 chance against one... if they were mediocre. If they were *good* you were boned most of the time.

Mossies were (are):
the most effective infantry killers
the most effective a2a platform
the most effective single person transport
the most effective scouting platform

The faster and more mobile a vehicle is, the more powerful a bailout mechanic comes for them.

Bailouts were just another broken feature of the mossie.

Your an infantry against a big plane... You should be at a disadvantage... 50/50 is pretty good odds for a person vs a helicopter... I dunno... Only reason the were considered a good A2A is cause you'd be on an even playing field with the guy your fighting.

Edit- How would not have a good chance if your the one hunting? You get your first set of flak off no? You only have to get one more set of flak off while he still has to turn around and shoot you. You just stand still while he's shooting?

What you guys are asking is to remove a complete play style from the game. Agile hot drops were some of the most fun times I had in planetside. Being able to drop on a base get inside and cause as much damage as I could without the need to have a giant box of "Hey I'm over here Ima be there is a minute!"

Hot dropping should definitely be in the game in some way. It's also one of the big things, that for you "It's the lifeforce of planetside people" Made we want to play the game... As we already no you won't be able to use Heavy assault weaponry in Light Assault so just make restrictions to what you can carry while flying.

Asking to remove hot dropping altogether or making it a worthless mechanic is removing an entire play style. And saying that my playstyle was no fun for other people. I disagree cause again I loved fighting hot droppers...

It's also a pretty important mechanic for anyone trying to resecure a base. It allowed for a VERY large distraction for enemy air/people outside. Forcing them to take care of the situation of the lone agile going in.

Lonehunter · 2011-10-30, 12:11 AM

I still don't understand why people think we should stay in an aircraft and just accept being defeated by a superior enemy. This is not a common practice on the internet lol
In a standard shooter if a guy gets the jump on me I don't just stop moving and let him kill me. I duck, turn around and try to finish him first.

Traak · 2011-10-30, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

What you guys are asking is to remove a complete play style from the game.

Yeah. You finally noticed that. It's what we want. Hot-dropping to be removed. Bailing, restricted to your slowly descending ejection seat while you show up on every available spectrum, visible, radar, and anything else is your reward for failing at being a pilot.

Not using the plane as a V-1 to destroy huge groups of enemies while gaily alighting from the cockpit, raining AV and HA death on others.

We don't need flying BFR/cruise missile/guided missile/second suit of armor. This game is not Gundam:Reloaded.

You fail at being a pilot, and your plane gets taken out, then you die. Or you can bail and be the most obvious and easy-to-kill thing in the whole battlespace, not another while life as an HA/SA/AV dropper.

Take your pick. Pilot or grunt. Choose your medium, air or ground. One class of people, pilots, being gifted the uber-flying-farmer-suit was, is, and always will be unbalanced.

Find a new playstyle that you can have fun with that isn't.

CutterJohn · 2011-10-30, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Lonehunter187

I still don't understand why people think we should stay in an aircraft and just accept being defeated by a superior enemy. This is not a common practice on the internet lol
In a standard shooter if a guy gets the jump on me I don't just stop moving and let him kill me. I duck, turn around and try to finish him first.

Mossie v AA max.

AA max has the mossie dead to rights. Mossie pilot bails over AA max. Instantly transforming from prey to predator. This apparently is fine. Ok.

Lets apply this to another unit. Lets say I have an AA max, and one of my counters, a rexo with AV, comes after me. Great. Now I'm about to die, so I hit a button and bail out of my max into agile + ha. This mechanic would generate enough rage to power a small city, even though it is fundamentally the same exact thing.

I'm fine with bailing. Just let me track the ejection seat/falling pilot with AA, and don't let them hit the ground gunning. Gal drops can have fancy drop cloaks if AA is an issue. It shouldn't be an instant get out of jail free card that makes your enemy suddenly unable to kill you or that you hit with no hope of accomplishing anything useful just to deny them the kill.

xSlideShow · 2011-10-30, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Traak

Yeah. You finally noticed that. It's what we want. Hot-dropping to be removed. Bailing, restricted to your slowly descending ejection seat while you show up on every available spectrum, visible, radar, and anything else is your reward for failing at being a pilot.

Not using the plane as a V-1 to destroy huge groups of enemies while gaily alighting from the cockpit, raining AV and HA death on others.

We don't need flying BFR/cruise missile/guided missile/second suit of armor. This game is not Gundam:Reloaded.

You fail at being a pilot, and your plane gets taken out, then you die. Or you can bail and be the most obvious and easy-to-kill thing in the whole battlespace, not another while life as an HA/SA/AV dropper.

Take your pick. Pilot or grunt. Choose your medium, air or ground. One class of people, pilots, being gifted the uber-flying-farmer-suit was, is, and always will be unbalanced.

Find a new playstyle that you can have fun with that isn't.

I'm pretty sure hot dropping has nothing to with BFRs... Since You know you can't bail from them but maybe I'm wrong...

Hot dropping was not OP in anyway. What your COMPLAINING about is the few instances when you couldn't kill them with AA? I never had to bail because of AA shooting at me and if I got low enough to where I needed to bail normally I couldn't. The instances you guys keep citing are from times when some would carry an AV gun such as a striker in there piloting loadout? 90% of the people who hot dropped carried deci's which if I remember to use them correctly to hit a plane you had to camera mode which left you vunerable.

You need fast responders. And fast responders need hot drop. This has nothing to do with piloting. I'm talking even talking about A2A or A2G combat I'm am saying that removing the ability to hot drop in a way similar to it's current would be killing fast responders. Unless you can spawn in anywhere now. And tubes never go down.

Your trying to remove a game play mechanic that was crucial in everyones fun. Not just the person "abusing it".

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Mossie v AA max.

AA max has the mossie dead to rights. Mossie pilot bails over AA max. Instantly transforming from prey to predator. This apparently is fine. Ok.

Lets apply this to another unit. Lets say I have an AA max, and one of my counters, a rexo with AV, comes after me. Great. Now I'm about to die, so I hit a button and bail out of my max into agile + ha. This mechanic would generate enough rage to power a small city, even though it is fundamentally the same exact thing.

After the agile bails the max still has the advantage of being able to turn on run mode and peace out. While the agile is now a sitting duck in the sense he has to run back to his base or get slain anyway. And since I'm assuming the AA max knows better than to sit in an area where he has no help. The agile is probably gonna die real quick.

CutterJohn · 2011-10-30, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by xSlideShow

You need fast responders. And fast responders need hot drop. This has nothing to do with piloting. I'm talking even talking about A2A or A2G combat I'm am saying that removing the ability to hot drop in a way similar to it's current would be killing fast responders. Unless you can spawn in anywhere now. And tubes never go down.

A fast response unit does not require a period of near invulnerability while falling, nor does it require near instant battle readiness when they hit the ground.

Fast responders do not deserve the ability to, with near 100% certainty, put boots on the ground of their destination regardless of the enemies defenses as you can do in PS1. If they have AA up, you need to deal with that first. Or not trickle in one at a time.

xSlideShow · 2011-10-30, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

A fast response unit does not require a period of near invulnerability while falling, nor does it require near instant battle readiness when they hit the ground.

Fast responders do not deserve the ability to, with near 100% certainty, put boots on the ground of their destination regardless of the enemies defenses as you can do in PS1. If they have AA up, you need to deal with that first. Or not trickle in one at a time.

That's the point of the faster responder though is it not? To bypass the enemies defense to cause the large distraction so that the main force can penetrate the line. Your guy's solution this problem are way to drastic. Your asking to remove the guys weapon? I'm ok with a slower freefall it would make sense. But all this remove the mechanic all together and make it so they can't carry any weaponry is ridiculous imo.