Territory Capture Concern - Page 2

Miir · 2011-12-31, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

Good job mate... Do you plan to extend the animation?

In this case I think hexas will be smaller. IIRC a larger base will mean 6-7 hexas (or is it their SOI that turns when the base itself turns? - /unsure).

It would be great to see how the frontline will move. Like a 3-3 adjacent hexa situation (no time bonus), one empire gathers forces and breaks through, making it easier the capture the center, and finally the front collapses and and the defenders must withdraw.

And one more thing. When TR responds to the attack, the animation suggest that they rearrange their troops and they attack from multiple directions. How about adding a timer ticking slowly to 0 when NC comes, then the timer ticking fast when TR recaptures?

Anyone has an idea how 3-ways will work? Does it matter if (let's say) we have 2 adjacent, enemy has 3 and 3rd empire has 1? How will the timer be calculated?

What will happen, if you have 3 hexas (like satelites around a center hexa), you start capturing the middle one (3 adjacent, no timer bonus/malus) but you loose one or two in the meantime? You finish the conquer based on the original timer, or your timer will go up when loosing an adjacent territory? On the other hand, if you manage to capture additional hexas, your timer will drop with their bonus?

Man, it would be so much easier to make an animation based on my concerns than trying to explain them in words!

It's pretty easy to add more information to the animation. I tried to avoid using any timers or numbers not to mislead people into thinking those numbers were official. But if we get some more concrete information I can modify video.

Below shows what I think will be the natural progression of battle. Nothing is stopping an empire from attacking out of order but this would be the best method to get the time bonus on the front lines.

ringring · 2011-12-31, 12:30 PM

That seems fine, although I think a lot depends on the timing. For instance, in PS1 you can hack and capture an isolated base but first you have to drain it - the time to drain and hack added up, but it could and was done.

I'd also like to hear how a 'hex' is captured. Is there a tower / small facility to hack and hold? I'd guess they need to be defended.

Hamma · 2012-01-01, 10:30 AM

Good stuff Miir! A great visual way to explain the Hex system as it probably will be.

SgtMAD · 2012-01-01, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

I hated the lattice system in ps1 and I think it helped break the game more than BFR's. If I want to take a squad into enemy territory and secure a foothold there I should be allowed to.

With the system Miir showed, the ideas I have could completely and utterly bum fuck a faction if excuted right. Get some ocean land based resources, place your backs against the water and set up a defense while taking the thirty minutes of time it takes to "own" the resource and defend it while detering other forces from the main front battle.

Do this with a few other spec ops teams and get real unit cohesion with strategic points for movement instead of resources, and you could own the world in a matter of days. And I see nothing wrong with it.

If one faction gets super hardcore team oriented, it will force the other factions to do the same thing. Thus, you get people setting up defensive points and guard towers without the threat of "trolls" or spec op teams attempting to take land behind enemy lines with ease.

this is already happening,before the CN overran Markov we had the NC so well trained that they would pretty much do what we told 'em.it was the most goddamn fun we ever had playing that game.

during any Event( Mono,Run/Guns)the NC would get an entire poplock on TS,we split it Armor in one channel,Air Assault in another and we all had one plan and we executed that plan,no one argued and everyone listened,the NC would go 28-0 during the three day mono events and we killed an entire VS poplock in the basement of Eisa during the run event.

I know Ht will be pulling all sorts of behind the lines shit and we will have a couple of 'toons up all the time, the only guy not coming back so far is Dreamer(until i hunt him down LOL)and i have to figure a bunch of the other NC Outfits will be returning too so we will have an empire that has quite a few ppl that are used to playing together and following orders.

Screw running with the Zerg

CutterJohn · 2012-01-01, 11:31 AM

Its going to be interesting when empires start unofficially claiming 'home' continents.

Only now they'll be able to change hands, which should be great for bragging rights if you manage to bag one.

Canaris · 2012-01-01, 11:36 AM

One question I have about the Hex system is if for instance

There are 6 hexes surrounding a NC base with the TR attacking.

The TR has 3 and the NC has 3

While the base hack is in progress either the TR or NC takes more of the Hexes around the base, does it effect the timer on the base hack or is that set to the time it was set off?

BorisBlade · 2012-01-01, 12:12 PM

Most of you seem to be missing the point, you talkk about them not being able to capture it for various reasons. Thats not what he's saying, he means they arent trying to capture but just to be complete asses and hacking every base they can just so we have to leave the fight to constantly resecure ghost hacks. Eventually you get sick of that boring crap and just give up. Basically you just grief the other side pointlessly til they get sick of it. So having longer timers or shorter timers or whatever you all suggested doesnt mean squat in stopping that. Still get the same bullshyt from the griefers.

HOWEVER, we dont know how the full system will work. So there could be some other things to make it much more of a pain to even just grief with a hack. Personally i think bases should need more than just a random guy getting to the cc. They have said bases are taken in stages, so if thats the case and its done right, then this could stop that lone griefer in his tracks. Or at very least we should get some warnings that someone is breaking thru the various stages allowing us to get in and stop em before they start a hack. And it just makes it a ton more work for one person helping to discourage doing it just to grief.

SuperMorto · 2012-01-01, 01:33 PM

Really good video this I love it! A few questions still remain, how will we activate a hex to our own? And also what about edge hexes.... the ones with uneven sides?

ringring · 2012-01-01, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

well like all speculation, I don't believe one guy bailing out of an aircraft over an enemy controlled faction area is going to cause him to start "capturing" it. I'm sure there is a minimum amount of players needed. I'm not 100% sure.. but through the testing and such they have to realize that this would be a game breaker.

3 or more people should be required to take a territory in my opinion.

this needs some dev clarifcation though.

another Q/A question next time it arises.

Exactly, how do you capture a hex. Is it as simple as a bunch of guys 'hanging about' for a bit?

Coreldan · 2012-01-01, 01:38 PM

I'd still vote for hacking the hexes relevant CC of some kind.

Then again, I guess that would sorta rule out just fighting over a forest. But perhaps each hex could at the very least have a tower of some sort, and when you capture that CC, you get the entire hex?

I'm not really into the "who has more people in the hex wins".

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-01, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by ringring

Exactly, how do you capture a hex. Is it as simple as a bunch of guys 'hanging about' for a bit?

Almost sounds like it. No mentions of needing a REK or hacking that I know of. However, I imagine merely being in the hex isn't enough, but at least being near to central control point related to that hex may be. We should be seeing bases, towers, and bunkers in the field for capturing hexes, though they did make it sound like bringing a large enough force to an undefended area would turn it over to the conquerors, but that's probably only really likely to happen on the front lines in territories not tied to any one capturable structure, like fields and forests, not deep within enemy held territory.

Death2All · 2012-01-01, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Almost sounds like it. No mentions of needing a REK or hacking that I know of. However, I imagine merely being in the hex isn't enough, but at least being near to central control point related to that hex may be. We should be seeing bases, towers, and bunkers in the field for capturing hexes, though they did make it sound like bringing a large enough force to an undefended area would turn it over to the conquerors, but that's probably only really likely to happen on the front lines in territories not tied to any one capturable structure, like fields and forests, not deep within enemy held territory.

That's how imagine territory capture going down.

There's a central control point (CP) which you have to hold a la Global Agenda. Perhaps capture methods vary depending what type of point it is. A base for example, you have to hack and hold traditional PS style, but say a random plane of land, there's maybe a bunker or some small structure you have to take control of to "own" that territory.

I feel like I might be quoting Higby word for word on this.

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-01, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by DeeTwoEh

That's how imagine territory capture going down.

There's a central control point (CP) which you have to hold a la Global Agenda. Perhaps capture methods vary depending what type of point it is. A base for example, you have to hack and hold traditional PS style, but say a random plane of land, there's maybe a bunker or some small structure you have to take control of to "own" that territory.

I feel like I might be quoting Higby word for word on this.

It does ring of deja vu.

Trolltaxi · 2012-01-01, 04:08 PM

I think every hex will have a key point that needs to be captured. Maybe a tower, or just a bunch of crates, an entrance facility of a resource mine, a bunker, a checkpoint on a road, or simply a flagpole.

Lingering around isn't enogugh neither for a sole man, nor for a squad. This will mean time to do some preparations like we did when tried to open a continent. When you actively start capturing, your timer will start ticking.

I cannot imagine the capture system without a dedicated center of each hexa. If you don't have a "CC" in the hexa, how will it turn? If there is no other troop in the hexa? A lone cloaker would be the best defense, just place him somewhere hard to find and the hexa won't turn till he's alive?

Contested hexas on the frontline won't get empty that easy. There needs to be a central facility (maybe not even in the geometric center).

BTW what's your idea about the size of a hexa? How many hexas will be there on each continent? We know we will have 8x8 km, that are 64 sq km-s, that amount of hexas (1 sq km for each hex) is already pretty high. But a 1x1 km area is way too much for a small group to feel they can control it. On the other hand, if a hexa is around 100 meter in diameter, that is too small, you can shoot over 2-3 hexas with a normal rifle. And it would take too long to make progress if you have to fight 10 mins for 100 meters.

Ideas?

ringring · 2012-01-01, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Trolltaxi

I think every hex will have a key point that needs to be captured. Maybe a tower, or just a bunch of crates, an entrance facility of a resource mine, a bunker, a checkpoint on a road, or simply a flagpole.

Lingering around isn't enogugh neither for a sole man, nor for a squad. This will mean time to do some preparations like we did when tried to open a continent. When you actively start capturing, your timer will start ticking.

I cannot imagine the capture system without a dedicated center of each hexa. If you don't have a "CC" in the hexa, how will it turn? If there is no other troop in the hexa? A lone cloaker would be the best defense, just place him somewhere hard to find and the hexa won't turn till he's alive?

Contested hexas on the frontline won't get empty that easy. There needs to be a central facility (maybe not even in the geometric center).

BTW what's your idea about the size of a hexa? How many hexas will be there on each continent? We know we will have 8x8 km, that are 64 sq km-s, that amount of hexas (1 sq km for each hex) is already pretty high. But a 1x1 km area is way too much for a small group to feel they can control it. On the other hand, if a hexa is around 100 meter in diameter, that is too small, you can shoot over 2-3 hexas with a normal rifle. And it would take too long to make progress if you have to fight 10 mins for 100 meters.

Ideas?

That's the way I think it will be, however we haven't had any solid information about it.

On the last point I think Higby said a base would be several Hexes, 3-4 I think but I am not sure.