Simplicity vs Depth - Page 2

Marth Koopa · 2012-01-01, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by CuddlyChud

I just meant that this is an English language forum and so presumably most of the people here would not have played a foreign language game, especially a Japanese one. If you were really trying to prove a point, you would reference a game more of us are familiar with or explain why that game was so complex.

Why would I want to choose inferior examples? I honestly can't think of any game released in English that many people have played that is even remotely close to Thracia's complexity.

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-01, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

Why would I want to choose inferior examples? I honestly can't think of any game released in English that many people have played that is even remotely close to Thracia's complexity.

Examples only work if your audience understands the example. It's not about what you know or feel is the best example, it's about what your audience can relate to.

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-01, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by IDukeNukeml

The most complex game I've ever played, english title and on a console (PS2 no less) The Legend of Alan'dar . That son of a bitch, was complicated.

That's an understatement. It was also brutally unfair at times. Even the very first fight of the game was merciless.

LongBow · 2012-01-01, 02:40 PM

first up, simplicity does not make a game easy, tic tac toe(noughts and crosses) is simple but its a bitch to win!

what I think you are getting at is a sliding scale of complexity ... but please do not mistake that for ease.

1) AMS's were set and forget ... the logistical effort of keeping a giant multicoloured aircraft alive is much deeper ...

2) Ants themselves were terrible, I hope there is a new siege mechanic; but ants were terrible and none should mourn their passing!

3) - we know so little about classes to pretend we understand the full complexity of them is foolish. (not being able to cherry pick adds depth not removes it)

4) yes, additional mechanics do add depth.

5) this does make things less complicated yes, but it is a choice that will have been made based primarily on faction definition.

in all truth I had to re-write this post because I was just openly insulting ... yes elements from current generation FPS games will make it into this FPS title. Higby and his team have shown an understanding of how they must alter the implementation of every "current" mechanic they have discussed with a great deal of competence.

oh and on a note I think is quite ironic ... all this worry about doing things CoD did ... despite the fact that modern warfare was so successful because it implemented features we first saw in an FPS, in none other than planetside!

Marth Koopa · 2012-01-01, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Examples only work if your audience understands the example. It's not about what you know or feel is the best example, it's about what your audience can relate to.

The audience doesn't need to "relate" to the example, they just need to know the facts.

EASyEightyEight · 2012-01-01, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

A game that is ACTUALLY super deep and complicated is Fire Emblem: Thracia 776. I couldn't even fit a good description of the basics in a paragraph and I'm not about to write out half a dozen paragraphs to describe what makes it so deep, intricate, and complicated.

Then here's a fact. ^That^ tells me nothing. Absolutely nothing. Many MMO gamers at least have a rudimentary idea of how EVE works, it's big enough to ripple through out the available player base.

But do continue to post references without consideration towards others knowledge of the reference. It's really helping you make your case.

Marth Koopa · 2012-01-01, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by EASyEightyEight

Then here's a fact. ^That^ tells me nothing. Absolutely nothing. Many MMO gamers at least have a rudimentary idea of how EVE works, it's big enough to ripple through out the available player base.

But do continue to post references without consideration towards others knowledge of the reference. It's really helping you make your case.

How does it tell you nothing? I'm telling you that EVE is not deep and Thracia is, I don't understand what else I need to tell you without going on a few paragraphs describing the basics of Thracia.

CuddlyChud · 2012-01-01, 04:42 PM

Off-topic:

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

How does it tell you nothing? I'm telling you that EVE is not deep and Thracia is, I don't understand what else I need to tell you without going on a few paragraphs describing the basics of Thracia.

The point I was trying to make is that in your original post that I quoted, you weren't trying to make any point about the topic at hand or else you would have used something more persuasive. You were simply trying to ridicule anyone who thinks EVE is a complex game by branding them a "pseudo-intellectual." You then went on to try and prove your own superiority, presumably as a true intellectual, by name-dropping an obscure game that very few of us have played.

In other words, your post was not in pertinent to the OP. Neither was my singling out your post, and I regret doing so. We should all just stop replying. After this reply

On-topic:

Complexity and depth aren't really related, and the more complex/deep a game is has very little relation (imo) to how much fun a game is. Board games are a good example of this. They have simple rules, but I find them to be a lot of fun to play with family and friends.

Arrow · 2012-01-01, 04:45 PM

because if no one understands and or has played the game then they dont understand the example. THUS creating no impact.

Marth Koopa · 2012-01-01, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by CuddlyChud

The point I was trying to make is that in your original post that I quoted, you weren't trying to make any point about the topic at hand or else you would have used something more persuasive. You were simply trying to ridicule anyone who thinks EVE is a complex game by branding them a "pseudo-intellectual." You then went on to try and prove your own superiority, presumably as a true intellectual, by name-dropping an obscure game that very few of us have played.

In other words, your post was not in pertinent to the OP. Neither was my singling out your post, and I regret doing so. We should all just stop replying. After this reply

Any relevant human being has played the Fire Emblem games, even those not officially released in English (hurray fan translations). If someone cared enough about my comments they would look it up (and they would be doing themselves a great favor to play Thracia, as it is the greatest game known to man)

SKYeXile · 2012-01-01, 07:59 PM

Simplicity sells.

Ailos · 2012-01-02, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by SKYeXile

Simplicity sells.

That could so easily be a marketing slogan for Activision, lol. (Probably not Blizzard though.)

DviddLeff · 2012-01-02, 05:46 PM

The devs are aiming to make the game more accessible, allowing them to increase the amount of players and thereby the lifetime of the game.

While they are removing depth in certain areas these are being replaced by other methods of achieving the same effect, some more and others less complex.

The resource/territory control system and specialisation in every aspect of the old certifications will replace almost anything that may have been lost in my opinion.

Bittermen · 2012-01-02, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by Marth Koopa

How does it tell you nothing? I'm telling you that EVE is not deep and Thracia is, I don't understand what else I need to tell you without going on a few paragraphs describing the basics of Thracia.

I think EVE is pretty damn deep.

Baneblade · 2012-01-02, 06:50 PM

This whole Simplicity vs Depth thing is bullshit. You can add plenty of Depth without making the game more complicated.