Making Snipers useful. - Page 2

Vancha · 2012-01-31, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by VioletZero

I find it difficult to believe that you were more productive as a Sniper than someone who was repairing a critical vehicle or assisting a critical push.

You seem to assume that I've only played one FPS.

No, this applies to EVERY FPS I'VE EVER PLAYED. Sniping was simply useless in the grand scheme of things. Even in larger games like Battlefield.

I'll forgive you, because you're new and I liked your post about which empire people didn't want to be on, but you really aren't getting this.

You could have played every FPS ever made. It wouldn't help you.

WaryWizard · 2012-01-31, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by VioletZero

I find it difficult to believe that you were more productive as a Sniper than someone who was repairing a critical vehicle or assisting a critical push.

You seem to assume that I've only played one FPS.

No, this applies to EVERY FPS I'VE EVER PLAYED. Sniping was simply useless in the grand scheme of things. Even in larger games like Battlefield.

But have you ever played an mmo fps with hundreds upon hundreds of people?...no? Me either to be honest.

Snipers are VERY important. They suppress because if you go out there you die. They get recon cause they can see farther than others. They kill cause they have strong guns. They are an important role that is necessary. If you remove them you will have other classes trying to take their roles, and they won't be as good.

Graywolves · 2012-01-31, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by VioletZero

I find it difficult to believe that you were more productive as a Sniper than someone who was repairing a critical vehicle or assisting a critical push.

You seem to assume that I've only played one FPS.

No, this applies to EVERY FPS I'VE EVER PLAYED. Sniping was simply useless in the grand scheme of things. Even in larger games like Battlefield.

Every other FPS wasn't on the scale of PS2. In games like Battlefield and CoD it was more of a way to get kills than anything else. Simply a playstyle.

Warborn · 2012-01-31, 10:18 PM

Planetside 1's sniper mechanics were perfect in every way. I could not believe how well-done they were. When you have a game featuring wide, open areas, it is incredibly easy to ruin everything by making snipers too good. PS1 managed to avoid that pitfall. Sniping is hard, and its main function was harassment/destroying deployables, but that's exactly what its role should have been. You can't make sniper rifles really good at getting kills and expect battles outdoors to wind up as much more than horrible sniper-fests. Making sniper rifles support weapons helps keep the medium assault weaponry useful.

Personally, I want sniping to stay exactly the same in terms of power. Sniping is the only thing PS1 really did right and I'd like to see carried over unchanged. If sniping is improved significantly, the game would suffer for it. And kill cams don't change sniping considering PS1 sniper rifles had hugely obvious tracers anyway.

brickbuster · 2012-01-31, 10:42 PM

Perhaps make sniper rifles useful against vehicles. I'm not saying that a sniper should be able to take down a tank, but perhaps make it so that bullets from sniper rifles can shoot through the tires of vehicles and slow them down. This would be an immense pain for a convoy, because after being slowed, the drivers of jeeps could be killed with headshots.

Also, make headshots hard but rewarding to get. Perhaps on light armor, a headshot could kill. On heavier armors, a headshot could cause damage and make the player stumble for a couple of seconds. Really, snipers could have an excellent spot as a harassment class.

VioletZero · 2012-01-31, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by brickbuster

Perhaps make sniper rifles useful against vehicles. I'm not saying that a sniper should be able to take down a tank, but perhaps make it so that bullets from sniper rifles can shoot through the tires of vehicles and slow them down. This would be an immense pain for a convoy, because after being slowed, the drivers of jeeps could be killed with headshots.

Also, make headshots hard but rewarding to get. Perhaps on light armor, a headshot could kill. On heavier armors, a headshot could cause damage and make the player stumble for a couple of seconds. Really, snipers could have an excellent spot as a harassment class.

My idea for that would be special sniper ammo that puts a heat signature on it that makes it so that air to ground rockets automatically home in on the vehicle.

CutterJohn · 2012-02-01, 12:49 AM

A mechwarrior style NARC beacon round seems like a pretty decent idea for expanding the role of sniper. Not sure if I'd make it so rockets automatically track, but it could definitely put the unit on the minimap and tagged vehicles could be easier to lock. If some factions don't have a great amount of locking stuff, a damage bonus against that unit could be a less realistic but more equitable solution.

HitbackTR · 2012-02-01, 05:17 AM

I really don't understand the problem that people had with snipers and I would say that if people think that they are useless, then they really don't/didn't have a clue how to play one. One must also remember that sniping in Planetside is different to how sniping is performed in games like TF2, COD, BF3 etc which I will now explain.

In Planetside I spent quite a bit of time sniping even though I was a a jack of all trades. The thing with sniping is that it was never just being a sniper if you were doing it right and often your other specialties augmented and improved the sniper class. For instance having CE meant that you would often be supporting other snipers in the field if you were working in two man teams, (which we did in PCP a lot). Carrying AV meant you could harass enemy air/vehicles and snipe em when they bailed. You could also knock down enemy CE such as spitfires and motion sensors, even mines if you were lucky enough to spot them. Cutting a swathe through enemy troops crossing various terrains was also something sniping was well suited for. Using the sniper scope was great to harass light vehicles also as well as auto-running maxes and surging cloakers etc. All in all a very fun class to play and the many hate tells i got while sniping made it all worth while.

People who say that snipers could have an excellent role as a harassment class need to realize that snipers have always had that ability, its just the majority of snipers haven't realized the full potential of the sniper class.

In closing Planetside sniping was very well balanced in my opinion, more so than any other game I have played really, considering the type of game that it is.

Gandhi · 2012-02-01, 12:52 PM

I thought snipers had a well defined role in PS1. They were awesome for keeping infantry off base walls for instance. Even if you as a lone sniper didn't get many kills doing this the mere fact that you were there meant the enemy constantly had to move and hide on their own base walls. Get 3 or 4 snipers from different angles going and it was almost impossible to sit on the walls. Lets not forget that in PS2 most infantry won't be able to heal themselves, which already makes snipers much more powerful than they were.

Same with stalemate battles in the open, where two groups of infantry are hiding behind rocks or trees. One or two snipers positioned on the sides would either force infantry into the open or simply kill them. So sure, while you weren't racking up many kills you were playing a very important role in combat. Harassment really did change the tide of battle in these cases.

To me the sniper in PS1 represented teamwork, while the sniper in Battlefield and CoD represents selfish killwhoring. Which works fine in a deathmatch style game, where the whole point is to get more kills than the other team, but is really counter productive in a game with teamwork based objectives.

VioletZero · 2012-02-01, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gandhi

I thought snipers had a well defined role in PS1. They were awesome for keeping infantry off base walls for instance. Even if you as a lone sniper didn't get many kills doing this the mere fact that you were there meant the enemy constantly had to move and hide on their own base walls. Get 3 or 4 snipers from different angles going and it was almost impossible to sit on the walls. Harassment really did change the tide of battle in these cases.

Same with stalemate battles in the open, where two groups of infantry are hiding behind rocks or trees. One or two snipers positioned on the sides would either force infantry into the open or simply kill them. So sure, while you weren't racking up many kills you were playing a very important role in combat.

To me the sniper in PS1 represented teamwork, while the sniper in Battlefield and CoD represents selfish killwhoring. Which works fine in a deathmatch style game, where the whole point is to get more kills than the other team, but is really counter productive in a game with teamwork based objectives.

That's actually a really good point.

Still, I wouldn't mind improving their recon capabilities.

BlazingSun · 2012-02-01, 01:14 PM

I want to be able to shoot down aircrafts with my sniperrifle again!

Bags · 2012-02-01, 01:27 PM

Snipers will be able to cloak and one shot softies, I do not believe they need to be any better or everyone will just play sniper.

I think the sniper in PS1 was great as it encouraged 2 man sniper teams or working together with softies on the front line (ie flushing out enemies from behind cover, or just taking them down to half health mid fight). Now they will just be used purely to killwhore, I fear.

Jaxbrain · 2012-02-01, 01:31 PM

I don't know if this has been covered, so I apologize if it has and also for not reading all of this presumptive misinformation.

Sniping IS a niche. We're (snipers) are not going to be effective all the time. If we were, everyone would play a sniper. I for one, liked the sniping in PS1. It was different and suited my taste.

As any successful sniper would agree, for every truly awesome epic snipefest you encounter, there's at least 10 boring encounters. And all 10 of them were worth it. Once you work yourself into an optimal position in a target rich environment many people die.

Bags · 2012-02-01, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jaxbrain

I don't know if this has been covered, so I apologize if it has and also for not reading all of this presumptive misinformation.

Sniping IS a niche. We're (snipers) are not going to be effective all the time. If we were, everyone would play a sniper. I for one, liked the sniping in PS1. It was different and suited my taste.

As any successful sniper would agree, for every truly awesome epic snipefest you encounter, there's at least 10 boring encounters. And all 10 of them were worth it. Once you work yourself into an optimal position in a target rich environment many people die.

Snipers are never effective at objectives. Going against a team that is half recons in BF3 is frustrating as hell to play, but we almost always win easily.

Kill whoring isn't the objective of these games.

Zhane · 2012-02-01, 01:44 PM

Am I the only one who really enjoys playing recon? And I mean recon, not "sniper." Actual recon, getting a vantage point on the fight that my allies don't have, and relaying information on enemy positions and movement. In Battlefield this was through spotting, but if I can find a good organized outfit in PS2, we're all on vent (or whatever) and I can verbally relay tactical information to my team in that way... I don't care if I ever take a shot, I'll be a happy camper.

Pun intended.