Balance Issues in Planetside 2 - Page 2

Raymac · 2012-03-20, 04:29 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict that "balance" is going to be a hot button topic on the forums for the lifetime of Planetside 2. Hell, it is already getting started with threads like tank driver/gunners and hovering aircraft etc. etc.

Winged_Nazgul · 2012-03-20, 08:55 AM

There is one sure way to balance a FPS. Make sure each side has access to identical weapons. But then we'd lose the unique flavor that is Planetside. I'd rather just put up with the inevitable whining and hope the devs don't listen to them too closely.

Knocky · 2012-03-20, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

All that needs to be said in my opinion. Never EVER listen to the community on balance changes, hear what they're saying by all means, but don't listen, take necessary steps towards changing things very gently.

This...a THOUSAND times this!

Manitou · 2012-03-20, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

It's just important the Devs use raw data and not player emotions to balance out these things.

Not much more that can be said about it other than that.

This. I agree with this...raw data is the key. Go with that and let the emotional reactions have no impact.

Shogun · 2012-03-20, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Here is the problem with Players when it comes to game balance.

No matter what people are going to feel that they are underpowered. I constantly see it in every game I play.. it is inevitable. It's just important the Devs use raw data and not player emotions to balance out these things.

Not much more that can be said about it other than that.

this!
balance ranting sucks and it will be there forever.
but the devs have statistics from the gamedata and can validate if there really is an issue!
i don´t know which interview it was said, but i´m sure cpt. higlo said something about balance and nerfing that sounded very good.
he is aware that sometimes a group of players discover a strategy that seems totally overpowered. but only because the other players just didn´t discover the proper counterstrategy.
now in every game the bad players would cry for a nerf instead of working out a new strategy to turn the tide!
but in a game with sooo many possibilities like ps2, swinging the nerfbat would ruin the fun to find this counter! it may take a while and the mentally challanged will rant on forever, but it´s part of a warfare simulator like ps2.

and if the overpowered thing gets nerfed, the same issue will come up, when the other faction finally finds the counter and balance is fucked up again because the first strategy was already castrated.

first rule for balance: use raw gamedata to check balance issues
second rule: don´t nerf too quick. let people get creative first.

DOUBLEXBAUGH · 2012-03-20, 10:18 AM

PS2 mechanics allows it to balance itself. Every factions guns start out with their factions unique style like in PS1, but with the side grades you can turn your Cycler into a Gauss if you feel its better. Initially if you think theirs is better than yours, maybe your playing the wrong faction for your play style, or if it really is OP you can just mod yours to be as good.

Masahiko · 2012-03-20, 11:29 AM

Balance is one of those things you want complaints to be about even on all sides. If there is a balance to the complaints you have relative balance. However, when there is a large outcry from many sides against one thing its usually worth taking a look at.

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 11:35 AM

It's also important when balancing to take into consideration player skill. Take for example, Starcraft.

Now, I'm by far NOT a master player, not even close, though I do know a few guys that do rank highly. Terran OP is the mantra of so many people in the lower leagues while in the upper leagues they're generally considered the hardest faction to play because of the much higher APM necessary to play them well, with their macro play needing to be much higher in order to compete.

Ultimately, the majority needs to be ignored and the most experienced are really the only people that can be truthful and honest with their analysis of whether something is overpowered or not.

StumpyTheOzzie · 2012-03-20, 06:18 PM

You have to draw the line somewhere though.

If the world is the same colour for a day, do you nerf?

a week?

a month?

**RadarX** · 2012-03-20, 06:21 PM

Balance tweaks are almost always done with hefty consideration to impact and based on good data. The Dev team will have people constantly looking at issues to determine if things are where they'd like them. The community rarely agrees on changes, but they'll only be made as needed.

Manitou · 2012-03-20, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by RadarX

Balance tweaks are almost always done with hefty consideration to impact and based on good data.

Emphasis is mine...this is the key. Balance according to data not perception.

Rumblepit · 2012-03-20, 09:17 PM

first, its sad that this is even a issue in a skill based fps game. all weapons need to have the same ttk rate as its counterpart, same shots, same damage ,same range so on so forth. guns dont have to be the same , but the stats should be. common pool the weapons that cant be used in this manner, and create knew ones to suit the needs to balance the weapons.

when it comes down to it skill should win every time.

this would end every debate on balanced weapons until the end of time.

Skitrel · 2012-03-20, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rumblepit

first, its sad that this is even a issue in a skill based fps game. all weapons need to have the same ttk rate as its counterpart, same shots, same damage ,same range so on so forth. guns dont have to be the same , but the stats should be. common pool the weapons that cant be used in this manner, and create knew ones to suit the needs to balance the weapons.

when it comes down to it skill should win every time.

this would end every debate on balanced weapons until the end of time.

Planetside is not a game of skill, it is a game of strategy and tactics.

It's about working out a strategy to kill that generator room full of 30 TR engineers and MAX units locked down ready to murder absolutely anything that comes through the door. It's about quickly reassigning units and countering what the enemy's strategy is.

Skill only plays a part in small unit combat, 4-10 vs one another. When you scale up so much that all disappears and it comes down to "What combination of weaponry and what approach do we need to take in order to break their strategy".

Battlefield and cod are for skill, where your fire fights are super short and involve 1-10 people max before rolling into the next fight a few seconds later. Planetside is for 30 minute long lockouts and outfits panicking as they fall dead wave after wave against a solid strategy.

Rumblepit · 2012-03-20, 11:22 PM

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Planetside is not a game of skill, it is a game of strategy and tactics.

It's about working out a strategy to kill that generator room full of 30 TR engineers and MAX units locked down ready to murder absolutely anything that comes through the door. It's about quickly reassigning units and countering what the enemy's strategy is.

Skill only plays a part in small unit combat, 4-10 vs one another. When you scale up so much that all disappears and it comes down to "What combination of weaponry and what approach do we need to take in order to break their strategy".

Battlefield and cod are for skill, where your fire fights are super short and involve 1-10 people max before rolling into the next fight a few seconds later. Planetside is for 30 minute long lockouts and outfits panicking as they fall dead wave after wave against a solid strategy.

i think you fail to see the point. not talking about how to take a base or breach a room.. we are talking weapons here right????

BorisBlade · 2012-03-20, 11:56 PM

in terms of actual, not perceived balance, ps1 in the end did very well.

PS2 tho, is totally different and is cake to balance in comparison.

First, the zillion points of customization means that with weapons you can essentially make em fairly the same but start at different ends of the spectrum and only allow for a slight bit at the ends that the others cant quite reach. The reality is, infantry MA guns should be easy for the most part. The only complicated parts come when you give one empire one thing and the other empire cant get it. Aka mcg's that must balance out with shotguns that must balance with laser orbs of doom, you cant balance that crap. So they give all empires a bit of each and just tweak em all a bit. More variety per side and can still have the flavor of that empire but withotu the balance nightmare.

Second, the TTK is so much higher that you have a much smaller band to balance along which means that somethin that took a little longer to kill in ps1 would be obvious, but in ps2 that same % increase wouldnt be noticeable at all since everything pretty much kills you very fast.

Third, they have better tracking and actual data. People whine about perceived things, its often hard to find the facts. But having the actual data they can much mroe easily find the issue and tweak it in a timely and effective manner.

The only prob comes with their conscious decisions to make one empire weaker or stronger in one area or another. This can lead to nothing but frustration.

You can have variety but you must keep all vehicles balanced against each other, not part of a tool to balance an empire. In other words, nc cant have the best tanks, tr best air, vs the best whatever else. All tanks should be equal, maybe a bit better/worse in a few small areas like PS1 but versus each other they are balanced. Variety works but only if balance is there. PS was much more fun when they got vehicle balance to a much better state. People quickly learn what sucks, if your empire sux in one area then people wont use taht stuff and everyone misses out on those epic fights.