News: Participate in Outfit Spotlight!

[Skitrel]

Give it to the smallest unknown outfits that apply, anyone recognisable simply doesn't need it.

EDIT: I received an infraction for this post as "not contributory" apparently, from Manitou. While he might disagree with me that's just silly, it's a perfectly legitimate opinion.

But I guess I can clarify further. Big well known outfits do not need the publicity an outfit spotlight would give. While smaller unknown outfits would benefit greatly, in terms of what it would do for them it's much more beneficial for the growth of community and helping foster the smaller newer communities that are going to pop up as opposed to simply making well known outfits that are going to have no trouble growing grow even more.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Give it to the smallest unknown outfits that apply, anyone recognisable simply doesn't need it.

That's an interesting perspective. Personally, as one of the leaders of a moderately well-known Planetside clan, I'd consider this a good opportunity to attract talented new gamers who may not have played the first game, as they join the site in advance of PS2 being released.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Dart

That's an interesting perspective. Personally, as one of the leaders of a moderately well-known Planetside clan, I'd consider this a good opportunity to attract talented new gamers who may not have played the first game, as they join the site in advance of PS2 being released.

Precisely BUT, throwing spotlights on the best known outfits would just help the big guys grow more.

There's going to be a lot of new outfits that start appearing after the AMA. New outfits and those that aren't massively known from PS1 deserve the publicity and everything should be done to help foster new communities.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Give it to the smallest unknown outfits that apply, anyone recognisable simply doesn't need it.

EDIT: I received an infraction for this post as "not contributory" apparently, from Manitou. While he might disagree with me that's just silly, it's a perfectly legitimate opinion.

But I guess I can clarify further. Big well known outfits do not need the publicity an outfit spotlight would give. While smaller unknown outfits would benefit greatly, in terms of what it would do for them it's much more beneficial for the growth of community and helping foster the smaller newer communities that are going to pop up as opposed to simply making well known outfits that are going to have no trouble growing grow even more.

Yeah, I don't think you really need to have elaborated. Perhaps the infraction was for stating the obvious?

I don't mean to be a killjoy, but would this not perhaps be better post-PS2 release, or just before? You'll have a host of neophyte outfits looking to grow, as well as the largest amount of newbies looking for a new home.

[Hamma]

Not sure if you guys got the memo or not, but this is a community fan site for a game called PlanetSide. Community features are a big part of this website. Whether or not you think an outfit needs recognition or not is irrelevant. Honestly it's a simple as not applying to take part.

I've received many applications already and hope that the feature is well received.

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Hamma

Not sure if you guys got the memo or not, but this is a community fan site for a game called PlanetSide. Community features are a big part of this website. Whether or not you think an outfit needs recognition or not is irrelevant. Honestly it's a simple as not applying to take part.

I've received many applications already and hope that the feature is well received.

Wasn't referring to any outfit at all. I was just saying that in order to foster the growing future of Planetside favour is better spent fostering the new, not the old. That was all that was meant by it.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Precisely BUT, throwing spotlights on the best known outfits would just help the big guys grow more.

There's going to be a lot of new outfits that start appearing after the AMA. New outfits and those that aren't massively known from PS1 deserve the publicity and everything should be done to help foster new communities.

Again I would respectfully disagree. Your desire to coerce new members towards unknown Outfits doesn't seem to be in the best interests of the new gamers. Your bias against the "big guys" as you put it ignores the fact that a large part of the reason for Outfits like Ghosts of the Revolution's continued success is due to the fact that they offer a superior gaming experience when compared to many lesser known Outfits. Therefore why not reward their hardwork and, more importantly, consider the enjoyment of potential new members of our community by representing all types of Outfit, both large and small, in this feature.

I am not against new clans, or small ones. I'm just not in favour of this sort of 'affirmative action' or social engineering in an attempt to control something that will ultimately be regulated by market forces. Or put simply, if your small Outfit works hard and provides a good experience for gamers, people will want to join. Delta Triad has always been an intentionally small clan. We actually used to have a total member limit and we've never had more than 50 members. We also started comparatively late (2005) a year or two after most of the established Planetside clans. However due to our emphasis on the gaming experience and our success in game we ultimately ended up attracting talented gamers and created our own reputation.

That would be my advice to new Outfits. Have a clear identity and focus on making your clan the best at what it does. Rather than attempting to 'herd' new players into little known, and possibly less well-run, Outfits simply because we want to encourage more clans.

[Manitou]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

Wasn't referring to any outfit at all. I was just saying that in order to foster the growing future of Planetside favour is better spent fostering the new, not the old. That was all that was meant by it.

We are not arguing the legitimacy of your opinion. We are stating that you are not contributing to the thread (which, by the way, was the reason for your infraction). The Outfit Spotlight program is one that the staff of Planetside-Universe has offered without requests for opinions on how it should be run. Hamma's point is either you apply or not, and if you don't like the program, simply don't apply. Your critical view of the program is not contributing simply because we did not ask for any critiques.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Manitou

We are not arguing the legitimacy of your opinion. We are stating that you are not contributing to the thread (which, by the way, was the reason for your infraction). The Outfit Spotlight program is one that the staff of Planetside-Universe has offered without requests for opinions on how it should be run. Hamma's point is either you apply or not, and if you don't like the program, simply don't apply. Your critical view of the program is not contributing simply because we did not ask for any critiques.

Personally I do believe the discussion has thrown up an interesting tangent regarding the best way to run/encourage new Outfits however. Hint; schemes like this are an excellent platform. So I hope you and Hamma don't begrudge the discourse. Of course I could be the only one interested in the topic, in which case I really ought to be getting on with work!

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Dart

Again I would respectfully disagree. Your desire to coerce new members towards unknown Outfits doesn't seem to be in the best interests of the new gamers. Your bias against the "big guys" as you put it ignores the fact that a large part of the reason for Outfits like Ghosts of the Revolution's continued success is due to the fact that they offer a superior gaming experience when compared to many lesser known Outfits. Therefore why not reward their hardwork and, more importantly, consider the enjoyment of potential new members of our community by representing all types of Outfit, both large and small, in this feature.

I am not against new clans, or small ones. I'm just not in favour of this sort of 'affirmative action' or social engineering in an attempt to control something that will ultimately be regulated by market forces. Or put simply, if your small Outfit works hard and provides a good experience for gamers, people will want to join. Delta Triad has always been an intentionally small clan. We actually used to have a total member limit and we've never had more than 50 members. We also started comparatively late (2005) a year or two after most of the established Planetside clans. However due to our emphasis on the gaming experience and our success in game we ultimately ended up attracting talented gamers and created our own reputation.

That would be my advice to new Outfits. Have a clear identity and focus on making your clan the best at what it does. Rather than attempting to 'herd' new players into little known, and possibly less well-run, Outfits simply because we want to encourage more clans.

People will gravitate to the big ones regardless of outfit spotlights, they'll do well simply because they're already established. They have the critical mass necessary to ensure further growth. Without that critical mass however new outfits have significant problems growing.

Saying that a new outfit may be lesser well run is true, though simply assuming such as a result of them being new is unfair. And the future of Planetside will depend not on highlighting the veterans but on fostering the newbies so that they can become invested in the game, build new communities and essentially stick around.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't stating that your particular outfit shouldn't, just that there are plenty of outfits that don't/won't need such a thing at all, while there will certainly be plenty of smaller outfits that would benefit greatly and could be drawn into participating and contributing on a wider community level as a result of gaining attention. I'm not referring to anyone in particular of course. Just considering the merits and possibilities.

Originally Posted by Manitou

We are not arguing the legitimacy of your opinion. We are stating that you are not contributing to the thread (which, by the way, was the reason for your infraction). The Outfit Spotlight program is one that the staff of Planetside-Universe has offered without requests for opinions on how it should be run. Hamma's point is either you apply or not, and if you don't like the program, simply don't apply. Your critical view of the program is not contributing simply because we did not ask for any critiques.

Wow, that's... Interesting. This kind of amounts to "I didn't ask for your opinion and therefore I'm punishing you for giving it", I don't think discussing the merits of who's better off getting such a thing is a bad thing. Forums are for discussing the topics posted right? And discussion is generally all opinion. Though my opinion wasn't really a critique, it was really just an off the cuff thought of "Oh, that's cool, I kind of think this ought to go to small cool new outfits as opposed to heavily established big ones, the big boys won't have trouble growing any more and don't really need the attention".

If discussion and opinions about outfit spotlights wasn't desired then should the thread really allow any posts other than the first at all?

EDIT: Though I'd rather talk about this privately. Which is why I messaged regarding it.

[Hamma]

Let's get this thread back on track - thanks! If you guys want to debate large outfits vs small there are other threads and forums for that.

Originally Posted by Dart

Personally I do believe the discussion has thrown up an interesting tangent regarding the best way to run/encourage new Outfits however. Hint; schemes like this are an excellent platform. So I hope you and Hamma don't begrudge the discourse. Of course I could be the only one interested in the topic, in which case I really ought to be getting on with work!

You are by far not the only one interested!

[Dart]

Originally Posted by Skitrel

People will gravitate to the big ones regardless of outfit spotlights, they'll do well simply because they're already established. They have the critical mass necessary to ensure further growth. Without that critical mass however new outfits have significant problems growing.

Saying that a new outfit may be lesser well run is true, though simply assuming such as a result of them being new is unfair. And the future of Planetside will depend not on highlighting the veterans but on fostering the newbies so that they can become invested in the game, build new communities and essentially stick around.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't stating that your particular outfit shouldn't, just that there are plenty of outfits that don't/won't need such a thing at all, while there will certainly be plenty of smaller outfits that would benefit greatly and could be drawn into participating and contributing on a wider community level as a result of gaining attention. I'm not referring to anyone in particular of course. Just considering the merits and possibilities.

See this is where I think you and I fundamentally disagree. I do not believe it is the responsibility of community leaders such as PSU to "foster newbies" as you put it. I believe it is down to the 'newbies' themselves to shape the communities in which they want to play.

You are wrong to assume I am suggesting that new Outfits might be less well run than more established ones. On the contrary, the example of my own Outfit was intended as an exhibit of how new Outfits can become just as successful and established as older ones. But your analogistic assertion of critical mass regarding large Outfits is quite wrong. I've watched many large Outfits fail, despite having several hundred members just as I know many very small Outfits which continue to succeed.

In my opinion in most cases it comes down to the driving force - much like a business, a clan is usually only as driven as it's leader and in that case this scheme is an excellent one. It provides a platform for new Outfit Leaders to raise their profile and reach new members and it also provides a forum for existing Leaders to remind the playerbase of their core beliefs. The playerbase can then make the decision as to who they'd like to follow - rather than being forced down one route or another - and ultimately people will vote with their feet. Fear not, many new groups will emerge and they'll push all of us to seek a higher level. Competition is a wonderful thing.

[acosmo]

I agree with skitrel on this one. Outfit spotlights should go to the lesser known clans, and most likely will seeing as larger and more established outfits do not need them (and will have little reason to put interest towards such competition). It's kind of disappointing to see how criticism is handled here though.

[Dart]

Originally Posted by acosmo

I agree with skitrel on this one. Outfit spotlights should go to the lesser known clans, and most likely will seeing as larger and more established outfits do not need them (and will have little reason to put interest towards such competition). It's kind of disappointing to see how criticism is handled here though.

I think you're being rather short-sighted. Why would robo for instance, not want to encourage gamers who've never played PS1, to visit the Ghosts of the Revolution website?

[Skitrel]

Originally Posted by Dart

See this is where I think you and I fundamentally disagree. I do not believe it is the responsibility of community leaders such as PSU to "foster newbies" as you put it. I believe it is down to the 'newbies' themselves to shape the communities in which they want to play.

Hmm, fair enough, that's groovy. We're allowed to disagree. I feel like the vets and the folks in power should always help foster the new and in fact have a responsibility to. You don't, that's ok.

But your analogistic assertion of critical mass regarding large Outfits is quite wrong. I've watched many large Outfits fail, despite having several hundred members just as I know many very small Outfits which continue to succeed.

Oh as have I, through many games over many years. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to infer the large don't fail or the small don't succeed without help. Anyway, just wanted to bring closure to our little discussion, as it's apparently not allowed...

On outfit highlights, I think it's a great idea, and there's lots of different quirks that are enjoyable and can be highlighted nicely. The roleplay elements of what the outfits are about and why they came to be I always find particularly interesting. People go into a lot of detail to fit their outfits into the Planetside lore and give them stories.