Crashing Aircraft

[FastAndFree]

It made the game a lot more awesome that you wouldn't just suffer from an arbitrary critical existence failure when you took enough damage.

I remember that once I managed to survive crash-landing my crippled mosquito somehow - it felt great! That was around '05 summer I think

Bailing will probably be not as annoying in PS2 now that we will be able to dive right after them but I support any feature that separates the pilots from the bailures regardless

[Destroyeron]

Are you sure they took it out? Or did they just make the percentage of health left so small almost no one sees it anymore? Cause it definitely happened to me about a week ago. I was flying a mossie and took damage and couldn't bail out, which honestly I thought was stupid. Swapped that cert out.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

Duel simulator? Maybe you should stick to what I'm saying and leave the assumptions at the door. Again, you fail to make a point.



It's not going to be balanced at all times. How can it? Or even should it? What is your definition of balance? To give every vehicle the same thing? Sounds like homogenization. Games are better when players are given the freedom to customize themselves, which is the exact opposite of what you propose.

If you're going to give all aircraft the ability to bail, why not give that to tanks as well? Wouldn't that be "balanced"?

I'm not assuming, you stated pretty clearly that you didn't want people to bail so that you could get your kill. And that is an attitude that reminds me of dueling, where you expect your opponent to stick around and die.

Having a few pieces of standard equipment is not homogenization. Some things lend themselves to always being equipped. This is one of them. And vehicles more than anything else lend themselves to having standardized equipment. Choosing between weapons/functions and the pretty video game standard of bailing is ridiculous, I'm sorry to say. And yes, being able to bail from aircraft is pretty much standard for video games. I'm frankly amazed at the KDR philosophy I'm seeing here, I thought you guys were a little different.

And yes, tanks need the ability as well. Except we call it "climbing out".

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Destroyeron

Are you sure they took it out? Or did they just make the percentage of health left so small almost no one sees it anymore? Cause it definitely happened to me about a week ago. I was flying a mossie and took damage and couldn't bail out, which honestly I thought was stupid. Swapped that cert out.

That was put in so people wouldnt bail and commit suicide, denying the people who shot them down a kill.

[Insanekanifer]

I'm all for bailing if it forces them to use a parachute, and slowly fall to the ground with no accuracy for firearms . That way the person who shot them down has the edge, they can still bail and if they are far enough away, survive. The problem with PS1 was that the guy bailing would literally fall to the earth at like 80 km, have full accuracy while falling, and survive the landing because of some lame excuse for a mechanic.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Vash02

That was put in so people wouldnt bail and commit suicide, denying the people who shot them down a kill.

Committing suicide is easily avoided:
1. Your parachute opens as soon as you bail, so you can't simply fall to your death.
2. No suicide/selfkill mechanic should exist. Put in a 30 second delayed despawn if someone wants to stop what they are doing and respawn somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Insanekanifer

I'm all for bailing if it forces them to use a parachute, and slowly fall to the ground with no accuracy for firearms . That way the person who shot them down has the edge, they can still bail and if they are far enough away, survive. The problem with PS1 was that the guy bailing would literally fall to the earth at like 80 km, have full accuracy while falling, and survive the landing because of some lame excuse for a mechanic.

Ah, I understand that a bit better now. And also, an automatic parachute will make the bailed player stick out like a sore thumb. Yes, falling and surviving without even a parachute is a lame mechanic. Are people assuming that a Bail Certificate is going to be the same thing? Basically a "let you survive the fall" mechanic?

[Insanekanifer]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Committing suicide is easily avoided:
1. Your parachute opens as soon as you bail, so you can't simply fall to your death.
2. No suicide/selfkill mechanic should exist. Put in a 30 second delayed despawn if someone wants to stop what they are doing and respawn somewhere else.




Ah, I understand that a bit better now. And also, an automatic parachute will make the bailed player stick out like a sore thumb. Yes, falling and surviving without even a parachute is a lame mechanic. Are people assuming that a Bail Certificate is going to be the same thing? Basically a "let you survive the fall" mechanic?

Yes, this is the entire reason people hated the bail mechanic in Planetside 1. Because you could be 10000ft, hit the ground in seconds and be full combat ready, no parachute, and you could shoot shit while falling with decent accuracy. It was stupid. Like I said, add a slow fall, parachute etc and im fine with it. Certs that bring back the old bailing is bs.

Edit: I'm fine with the fast fall mechanic for things like Galaxy drops, but "bailing" should auto give a parachute.

[Vash02]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Committing suicide is easily avoided:
1. Your parachute opens as soon as you bail, so you can't simply fall to your death.
2. No suicide/selfkill mechanic should exist. Put in a 30 second delayed despawn if someone wants to stop what they are doing and respawn somewhere else.

Despawning had a 20/30 second delay in PS1 so people just put down boomers or grenades at their feet and set them off.
It also denies people their air to air kills, in PS1 it only counted if someone was inside the aircraft at the moment of their death.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Vash02

Despawning had a 20/30 second delay in PS1 so people just put down boomers or grenades at their feet and set them off.
It also denies people their air to air kills, in PS1 it only counted if someone was inside the aircraft at the moment of their death.

If people are so determined to suicide that they will C4 themselves, are we going to turn friendly fire off for that? If not, why should we deny bailing either? Committing suicide to deny a kill is hardly an aircraft only issue, after all.

This is how games work, making substantial changes to game balance to fix these issues isn't right. Though, if you're talking about pilots specifically, if the parachute is automatic, they won't be able to C4 themselves until they get to the ground.

But I think there's an even simpler solution. If stats are all that some people love, then that's what they should receive: SOE should make a vehicle kill stat - one that you receive for killing a vehicle, and you get kills in this category independent of killing the pilot.

[ArcIyte]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

I'm not assuming, you stated pretty clearly that you didn't want people to bail so that you could get your kill. And that is an attitude that reminds me of dueling, where you expect your opponent to stick around and die.

Having a few pieces of standard equipment is not homogenization. Some things lend themselves to always being equipped. This is one of them. And vehicles more than anything else lend themselves to having standardized equipment. Choosing between weapons/functions and the pretty video game standard of bailing is ridiculous, I'm sorry to say. And yes, being able to bail from aircraft is pretty much standard for video games. I'm frankly amazed at the KDR philosophy I'm seeing here, I thought you guys were a little different.

It has less to do with KDR philosophy and more to do with getting rid of lame arcade-style gameplay. I don't want people to use aircraft like they did in PS1 and BF3. IE: Using the most powerful vehicles in the game, only to bail out of them when it comes time to die. The only other vehicles to get that luxury were open-topped, and it was fair because they weren't all that strong.

I think that if you get into a vehicle, specifically strong vehicles like reavers and tanks, you should be committed to it. Getting out should require you to land/park.

And yes, tanks need the ability as well. Except we call it "climbing out".

No, it wouldn't be "climbing out". A fair comparison would be an ejection seat that throws you safely away from the explosion. Now imagine everyone has it. How lame would that be?

[Baneblade]

The easy fix to bailures in PS2 (and PS1 tbfh) would be to simply not allow a pilot to bail until their aircraft are below a certain threshold of hp.

I've always said, that you shouldn't be able to bail until your bailing mechanism had a chance to fail. Well they added the chance to fail part, but not the first part.

[ArcIyte]

To be fair I'm using PS1 and BF3 as comparisons. Hopefully the resource system really punishes you for losing such a strong vehicle. I would be ok with knocking out an aircraft if I knew they wouldn't simply get another one as soon as they respawned.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

It has less to do with KDR philosophy and more to do with getting rid of lame arcade-style gameplay. I don't want people to use aircraft like they did in PS1 and BF3. IE: Using the most powerful vehicles in the game, only to bail out of them when it comes time to die. The only other vehicles to get that luxury were open-topped, and it was fair because they weren't all that strong.

I think that if you get into a vehicle, specifically strong vehicles like reavers and tanks, you should be committed to it. Getting out should require you to land/park.



No, it wouldn't be "climbing out". A fair comparison would be an ejection seat that throws you safely away from the explosion. Now imagine everyone has it. How lame would that be?

An ejection seat wouldn't be lame at all, it would be authentic. NOT that I want to bring realism/authenticity into it, but if you're going to call bailing out arcade style gameplay, then that, to me, is the same as saying you want realism. And an ejection seat is realism. I'm only saying that in truth, not because I want realism.

What do you think of this system:
Put in a formal ejection seat that propels the pilot up and away from aircraft and automatically deploys a parachute. See, in Battlefield, you can hide after you bail by waiting til you're 20 feet off the ground to pop your chute. So let's remove that, and make the parachute automatic. And the ejection seat should be twice the size of the pilot, providing a juicy target for tanks and aircraft(ie, heavy weapons like tank cannons and jet cannons only have to hit the seat to kill him, not the pilot). Yet it isn't armored, so infantry can hit the pilot too on his way down.

AND, here's the really nice bit about my idea: if you do not eject before your vehicle reaches 20% health(maybe even 30%), after that, it is considered to be disabled by damage, and won't work. Therefore, you either have to make a decision to give up the fight early, which many people will be loathe to do, or you die. That would add commitment I think...

And I still say, independent of this issue, that we should discourage using fighters and bombers as transports by using Pilot crew kits armed only with pistol. Additionally, if people aren't carrying their normal light assault rifle, they will be less likely to bail in hopes of continuing to fight on the ground.

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

To be fair I'm using PS1 and BF3 as comparisons. Hopefully the resource system really punishes you for losing such a strong vehicle. I would be ok with knocking out an aircraft if I knew they wouldn't simply get another one as soon as they respawned.

I would like to see a system where you can get a partial resource refund if you return to base...of course the question becomes, why would anyone return to base? Still, it's a thought.

[Sledgecrushr]

It might work if you got a kill for destroying the vehicle. And then if you want you can swing back by and shoot the pilot out from his parachute. So destroying a plane could net you two kills.

[FastAndFree]

I want slow-falling parachutes and the ability to slice through them with my Scythe

*SPLAT*