Flak Gunning Infantry and Universal Launcher - Page 2

Mechzz · 2012-05-18, 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by PeteHMB

.... VS could Lancer snipe aircraft, but it was difficult to do....

Right, like trying to snipe aircraft is an effective tactic lol. All it did was alert the pilot to your presence and hasten your addition to his K/D.

Agree on lots of this post, but the lack of decent hand-held AA in PS1 was a major lack. I'm glad to see an apparently effective weapon will be put in the hands of the soldiers.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-05-18, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by Mechzz

Right, like trying to snipe aircraft is an effective tactic lol. All it did was alert the pilot to your presence and hasten your addition to his K/D.

...

You... never really used the lancer much did you? It was definitely possible to win 1v1s with mossies and I've won against Reavers using it and a Flacklet.
Sniping aircraft at range was regularly done, the speed of the round and its accuracy made it a wonderful tool for any sort of AV as long as you could successfully lead your target. Best AV in the game.

Mechzz · 2012-05-18, 02:16 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

...

You... never really used the lancer much did you? It was definitely possible to win 1v1s with mossies and I've won against Reavers using it and a Flacklet.
Sniping aircraft at range was regularly done, the speed of the round and its accuracy made it a wonderful tool for any sort of AV as long as you could successfully lead your target. Best AV in the game.

I guess I didn't - I now recall you making a similar comment after the last time I posted along these lines. Label me as a lesser-able player, but I prefer a stinger-type AA missile any day. Lancer was designed for AV and did a reasonable job at that if you had a few chums also popping away, but wasn't good AA in my epxerience.

Captain1nsaneo · 2012-05-18, 02:26 AM

Originally Posted by Mechzz

I guess I didn't - I now recall you making a similar comment after the last time I posted along these lines. Label me as a lesser-able player, but I prefer a stinger-type AA missile any day. Lancer was designed for AV and did a reasonable job at that if you had a few chums also popping away, but wasn't good AA in my epxerience.

Much is forgiven. I also recall having made that post before, I don't like talking down to anyone but the Lancer is probably my favorite heavy weapon so I'm a bit defensive about it.

I'll admit that it takes a lot of time to get used to but if you stick your crosshairs on the cockpit of the aircraft the round normally travels fast enough to tag them. I think mossies can take 4 to 5 hits before going up in a ball. That means that if you get an early shot in you can even win in a a point blank fight with a mossie (with a bit of dancing). It really is a weapon that rewards perfection though, 6 hits on a MAX is a kill and I think it's faster than a Deci's 3 shots just harder to pull off.

Packs of lancers were just out and out crazy fun when dealing with armor as the range and no warning made them perfect for ambushes. Though once I soloed a Vanguard who was too stupid to run away (EMP Thumper + Lancer + Trees to block run over attempts). Heck back in beta the lancer could 3 shot infantry. Basically did bloody everything.

Mechzz · 2012-05-18, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

Much is forgiven. I also recall having made that post before, I don't like talking down to anyone but the Lancer is probably my favorite heavy weapon so I'm a bit defensive about it.

I'll admit that it takes a lot of time to get used to but if you stick your crosshairs on the cockpit of the aircraft the round normally travels fast enough to tag them. I think mossies can take 4 to 5 hits before going up in a ball. That means that if you get an early shot in you can even win in a a point blank fight with a mossie (with a bit of dancing). It really is a weapon that rewards perfection though, 6 hits on a MAX is a kill and I think it's faster than a Deci's 3 shots just harder to pull off.

Packs of lancers were just out and out crazy fun when dealing with armor as the range and no warning made them perfect for ambushes. Though once I soloed a Vanguard who was too stupid to run away (EMP Thumper + Lancer + Trees to block run over attempts). Heck back in beta the lancer could 3 shot infantry. Basically did bloody everything.

It's cool. I really am a lesser-able player, but try not to be too hung up about it. I knew about Lancers being good in packs against vehcs. I only ever tried it as AA against hover-spammers, but to no great effect. Lack of imagination I guess in not thinking I could hit a reaver doing 200kph across my field of vision with an unguided projectile. Props to anyone who can do that, and I hope in my new outfit, whichever one that is, that we have peeps with similar imagination to try things out.

PeteHMB · 2012-05-18, 03:56 AM

Again - I saw this as a major part of the fun. Forcing people to think and not just zone out if they wanted to win...

captainkapautz · 2012-05-18, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

[...]That being said, I do prefer more uniqueness, so I am interested to see how the two weapons differ.[...]

Well, for what it's worth, the VS launcher was firing an energy projectile, kinda like a "plasma torpedo" instead of a normal rocket/missile.

Originally Posted by PeteHMB

Empire specific advantages and disadvantages were part of the fun in my opinion. It meant that people actually had to try and come up with tactics and coordination instead of just bumrushing (though that happened plenty anyway). Think about it: TR would run around and lock on aircraft, but had limited range with the Strikers. Vs could Lancer snipe aircraft, but it was difficult to do. NC could hit hovering aircraft from cover, but that was about it. On the other hand, shifting indoors the NC Jackhammer did very well in towers and hallways and CQB situations. Lashers were great for sort of AOE damage indoors, but basically sucked outdoors at range. MCGs were great medium to short range heavy assault weapons. Everything being situational meant you had to think a lot more if you wanted to survive.

I have to admit, I'd rather have functionally the same weapons with different visuals, then from the ground up different weapons that need different ways of thought to use appropriately.

Simple reason being: Balance.

It is way easier to balance 1 weapon that gets used by all 3 empires, then balance 3 different ones, because lets face it, the diversity in PS1 may have been all fine and dandy on paper, but in the end both Jackhammer and Lasher were superior weapons indoors, ya know were it actually matters.

I'm all for special weapons that ARE special for each faction, BUT please don't let those be the standard weapons that are used by everyone from the get-go, but instead make 'em unlockable later. (Rather hard to explain what I mean, sorry about that)

Sabrak · 2012-05-18, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by captainkapautz

Well, for what it's worth, the VS launcher was firing an energy projectile, kinda like a "plasma torpedo" instead of a normal rocket/missile.

That's aesthetics.

What we want to know is the real difference between those weapons in gameplay.

Maybe the main differences will be on their sidegrades?

captainkapautz · 2012-05-18, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Sabrak

That's aesthetics.[...]

Well, he asked for differences.

And like I already posted, balancewise it'd be easier and less timeconsuming to have the broad spectrum of "standard" weapons just differ in looks, and only little in actual stats.

Would still love to see some kind of "Special Assault"-kind of weapons useable by (almost) all classes.
Like TR gets a fullauto-only rocklet with more shot, but less damage then the PS1 one, NC gets the Thumper with more bang and VS gets their Discoballlaun...I mean Radiator.

Keep in mind that I mentioned those just as rough examples

Gonefshn · 2012-05-18, 01:30 PM

Losing the Lancer as VS AV is probably my biggest Woe for this game. I just LOVED that weapon. So incredibly satisfying to use. I would have loved to have seen the AV weapons broken down like this.

VS: Lancer. as in PS1. No change.
TR: Striker. same as PS1, lock on rocket with dumbfire mode.
NC: Pheonix, has dumbfire mode BUT replace the wire-guided with a system that works like the homing rocket in Halflife 2 where the rocket tracks a red dot.

Losing the specific tactics of each AV weapon sucks in my opinion. It made it so fun to play for your specific empire. It also made it meaningful to approach your two opposing empires with different concerns.

Mechzz · 2012-05-18, 01:34 PM

As AV the Lancer was good. But we (VS) had no decent hand-held AA. That would seem to be the trade-off here?

Or maybe there are ES weapons still to be displayed?

IMMentat · 2012-05-19, 12:49 AM

One of my fave moments is still shooting down a fully crewed liberator on a low altitude bombing run with a dual-decimator setup (was on the base-walls looking for vanguards/ams him overflying a biolab genroom at safe bomb-distance).
Poor fool never realised what hit him.

Was a one time only deal OFC but ever-so-fun.

in regards to the ES trooper AV, I think we all getting a lock-on version shared between all empires (decimator replacement but each empire is visually different) plus a second specific weapon modeled after the empires style.
So don't rule out the lancer yet.

Goku · 2012-05-19, 09:23 AM

Could of sworn they said the Lancer was in the works or has a high chance of making it in.

Xyntech · 2012-05-19, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by Goku

Could of sworn they said the Lancer was in the works or has a high chance of making it in.

I was under the impression that there would be more Lancer like and more Striker like AV weapons for all three empires, but I may have just been hoping for that and imagined it.

I'd also like to see all 3 empires Heavy Assault classes get something short ranged like the Jackhammer, something medium range like the MCG, and something unique and special assault style like the Lasher. With as much uniqueness thrown into those categories as possible.