Turret retraction into their tower - Page 2

Sabrak · 2012-05-21, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Mechzz

You said "make things too easy".

But that doesn't take away the point that turrets in PS1 were of little to no practical use during a base fight. And while we didn't see TB being attacked in one, my hopes for improvement in PS2 are not high given that they seem to have been positioned purely to give target practice to Reavers and Mossies.

Well, we don't know how resistant turrets will be, or if they can be placed anywhere, or even if they can be protected by deployed defenses like covers or MANA turrets.

Turrets could be much tougher than what they used to be, but we don't know that yet.

What we know though is that any defender who will be taken as a target on the walls will be able to instantly get in a turret and shoot if he's close to one.
So, so far, that's making things too easy for those defenders, yes, as turrets are too much of an instant life saver.

Anyway, turrets are the first line of defense in a base.
And just like any first line of defense, they're the first to be attacked and taken down.
I don't see how you can have turrets on walls and expect them to last long anyway, that doesn't fit in a siege scenario.

Mechzz · 2012-05-21, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Sabrak

....
What we know though is that any defender who will be taken as a target on the walls will be able to instantly get in a turret and shoot if he's close to one. ....

So, so far, that's making things too easy for those defenders, yes, as turrets are too much of an instant life saver.

Isn't that what turrets are for? To provide a means for defenders to reduce the number of attackers? And if the defender is smart enough to hop into a turret to increase his survival chances then kudos to the defender I say

(not that it makes much difference as the turret is soon dead itself anyway).

Originally Posted by Sabrak

...
Anyway, turrets are the first line of defense in a base.
And just like any first line of defense, they're the first to be attacked and taken down.
I don't see how you can have turrets on walls and expect them to last long anyway, that doesn't fit in a siege scenario.

The turret placement is "silly" - they are exposed to an unreasonable extent, rendering them of no use whenever the enemy turns up, which is the opposite of a sensible design.

As I mentioned earlier, even putting them behind the wall on the roofed walkway that we saw in the vid would be an improvement.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-21, 10:09 AM

What if turrets could switch between offensive and defensive mode at a moment's notice so that they could defend themselves?

I agree with others, turrets shouldn't be something that's just instantly destroyed at the start of combat. What's the point of them? Why would anyone attach them to bases if they were so easily dispatched?

I like the idea of them having an almost impervious armor plating that they encase themselves in until being used - but, to extend that idea, why not give the turret user the ability to deploy that plating when they want so they can defend from an incoming tank barrage or air strike? Obviously no shooting during this time period, but it would allow turrets to actually last and serve a purpose during a battle in the hands of a skilled operator, rather than just be destroyed the instant it's manned.

Mechzz · 2012-05-21, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

What if turrets could switch between offensive and defensive mode at a moment's notice so that they could defend themselves?

I agree with others, turrets shouldn't be something that's just instantly destroyed at the start of combat. What's the point of them? Why would anyone attach them to bases if they were so easily dispatched?

I like the idea of them having an almost impervious armor plating that they encase themselves in until being used - but, to extend that idea, why not give the turret user the ability to deploy that plating when they want so they can defend from an incoming tank barrage or air strike? Obviously no shooting during this time period, but it would allow turrets to actually last and serve a purpose during a battle in the hands of a skilled operator, rather than just be destroyed the instant it's manned.

+1

like this. It's skill-related and increases the usefulness of what should be a major asset to a base during an assault.

Kipper · 2012-05-21, 10:15 AM

...or, a straight up energy shield which is at 100% when out of use (unless there's no generator/power) but when the turret is manned, he can increment it from 0% through 100% directly set against firepower/speed?

So you could be in 70% defensive mode and still shoot 30% as fast/hard when up against it, or go for it in 10% defensive mode with 90% shooting power, etc..

That would introduce some skill into it.

Mechzz · 2012-05-21, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kipper

...or, a straight up energy shield which is at 100% when out of use (unless there's no generator/power) but when the turret is manned, he can increment it from 0% through 100% directly set against firepower/speed?

So you could be in 70% defensive mode and still shoot 30% as fast/hard when up against it, or go for it in 10% defensive mode with 90% shooting power, etc..

That would introduce some skill into it.

+1
This too. See, we do have some creative folks in the community

OK Devs, you choose: Flippable shield or User-Variable Shield/Firepower tradeoff setting!

But please, something that makes turrets just a little bit useable in a real fight! I really feel seeing those turrets pounding away will add a lot to a battle.

IMMentat · 2012-05-21, 10:45 AM

Voted no.
I'm not convinced by the current open to all directions turrets but I would rather a low sandbag wall around them than pull them inside the defensive building when unmanned.

The base shown had AA turrets on the roof and AV turrets in the middle, thats a lot of firepower but unless they go overkill on the armour (or add in some form of passive/active shielding) then its exposed and stationary, making it easily focussed and an easy kill.

I like the idea of a shield but would prefer a pinpoint/facing barrier similar to the MANA Turret than anything more complex.

Hypevosa · 2012-05-21, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kipper

...or, a straight up energy shield which is at 100% when out of use (unless there's no generator/power) but when the turret is manned, he can increment it from 0% through 100% directly set against firepower/speed?

So you could be in 70% defensive mode and still shoot 30% as fast/hard when up against it, or go for it in 10% defensive mode with 90% shooting power, etc..

That would introduce some skill into it.

It seems it would be a little cumbersome to change it though. Perhaps if it was relegated to the scroll wheel it could work...

Perhaps this could be a variation on the turrets. Metal shielding belonging to NC and Energy shield belonging to vanu?

But then what is the TR's version....

Perhaps the TR have a series of metal shields that drop as soon as you start firing but build up automatically over the period of a second or two when you aren't?

IMMentat · 2012-05-21, 10:56 AM

This is a defensive weapon. I hope we will se a few similar such items in PS2.

Stardouser · 2012-05-21, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by IMMentat

This is a defensive weapon. I hope we will se a few similar such items in PS2.

And would the engineer be able to repair from within that bunker? If so, it's almost like what I'm suggesting but without the retraction part.

If not, what would be the point?

Mechzz · 2012-05-21, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Hypevosa

It seems it would be a little cumbersome to change it though. Perhaps if it was relegated to the scroll wheel it could work...

It could be done off the "cruise control" buttons used for vehicle speed. So press 2 for 20% offence, 80% defence etc.

And you could make upgrades to offence/defence available in the engy cert tree.

I hope we're gonna see some truly awesome bases near to footholds, and having upgraded turrets could be part of that.

Mechzz · 2012-05-21, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by IMMentat

This is a defensive weapon. I hope we will se a few similar such items in PS2.

It looks awesome and scary. I hope we see many such items in PS2.

Plus: Fat lot of good they did the Germans (Atlantic Wall) and French (Maginot Line). Stronger turrets do not make bases untakeable, they increase the range of tactics needed to take them.

It's not about making turrets impregnable, it's about raising them above useless. With proper balancing they would be a fun addition to gameplay when battling for a major base.

Stardouser · 2012-05-21, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by WildVS

One of the most exhilarating things in PS1 was to try and repair a base turret under heavy fire. I can recall times of doing it under sniper, tank and air fire. You learn quickly how to position yourself to avoid as much as you can and then when you succeed and someone jumps in and tears up what was shooting at you. Yeah that was fun stuff. Don't take that aspect of the game away in PS2.

That's not an admirable aspect of the game imo. Games require suspension of disbelief just as much as movies do, and the idea that base builders wouldn't build retractable turrets if it were possible boggles the mind.

It's also going to discourage people from doing the repairs.

Mechzz · 2012-05-21, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by WildVS

One of the most exhilarating things in PS1 was to try and repair a base turret under heavy fire. I can recall times of doing it under sniper, tank and air fire. You learn quickly how to position yourself to avoid as much as you can and then when you succeed and someone jumps in and tears up what was shooting at you. Yeah that was fun stuff. Don't take that aspect of the game away in PS2.

I agree it was exhilirating. Up to the point you realised the thing you were repairing was about as much use as a spud gun against a King Tiger. Once that sunk in, repairing a dead turret during a base fight was low on the priority list for most engineers

Stardouser · 2012-05-21, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by WildVS

Nah man you'd be surprised. There a few brave souls out there who are willing to take one for the team. Really challenging and rewarding at the same time. Coordinate with your team mates to cover you the best they can and in the end when it all comes together we rejoice and feel some satisfaction at the end result. And get XP too!

I just wonder how you provide meaningful cover in a battle with a hundred or more enemies encircling your base, and every single tank in visual range is able to hit your tower, even those that are clear across on the other side of the base?

If turrets are made useful at all, they will be raped, and the more you try to repair them the more they will be raped. (imo)

View Poll Results: What do you think of turrets retracting?
Like the idea, retract when both unused and destroyed	8	15.69%
Like the idea but retract only when unused	10	19.61%
Don’t like it	28	54.90%
Other/Would like with changes	5	9.80%
Voters: 51. You may not vote on this poll