Revisiting Artillery, because its in. - Page 2

SgtMAD · 2012-05-30, 04:44 PM

I love seeing ppl that never played PS try to tell us all about flails.

ppl hated flails because they got abused, you would see ppl roll a flail up to a tower and start spamming the damn doors or you have an empire that didn't have the balls to fight you but they sure would set up a bunch of flails and just spam a CY until we went and killed them all,you would have to repeat this over and over again

I would much rather have an OS than flails in PS2

KTNApollo · 2012-05-30, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by HtSgtMAD

I love seeing ppl that never played PS try to tell us all about flails.

ppl hated flails because they got abused, you would see ppl roll a flail up to a tower and start spamming the damn doors or you have an empire that didn't have the balls to fight you but they sure would set up a bunch of flails and just spam a CY until we went and killed them all,you would have to repeat this over and over again

I would much rather have an OS than flails in PS2

This. During my short stint with PlanetSide I saw two things with flails. #1 There were people sitting in bases, shooting over mountains, rarely hitting anything ever, and thus doing nothing. #2 So many flails you couldn't do anything but abandon the courtyard or respawn at a different base.

Stardouser · 2012-05-30, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by KTNApollo

This. During my short stint with PlanetSide I saw two things with flails. #1 There were people sitting in bases, shooting over mountains, rarely hitting anything ever, and thus doing nothing. #2 So many flails you couldn't do anything but abandon the courtyard or respawn at a different base.

I address that every time I talk about artillery. Lower the range so that they can't sit in their own base. And even though you didn't mention it, I will go ahead and say that instead of a 30 meter splash radius it should really be more like 5m.

As for that many people playing them, that's more people they have not capturing your bases.

I know what you guys are saying of the problems, I just don't agree that they're problems after appropriate changes are made. Having experienced spam of very similar kind in other games, I'm relatively certain I will be just fine with it if, again, the appropriate changes are made. You in fact just hit upon the solution; spawn at a different base and go after them from there. If the range of the artillery was no more than 750m/1000m, it's not like you'd have to go far.

Gonefshn · 2012-05-30, 04:51 PM

This is going to be awesome! No flails because an artillery vehicle can pound an area over and over and over with no other purpose and no opposition.

OS will need some planning and you to get in close enough. Also, you can't just OS over and over it's something you can do once in awhile, not constantly spam somewhere causing players to get frustrated.

RoninAfro · 2012-05-30, 04:53 PM

First off, I want to say that I really like the idea of capturable/destructable artillery structures in a facility. However, I foresee some issues that would need to be addressed, primarily with the need for it to cost resources and have a long cooldown.
As much as I hate using the "OMG SPIES!!" argument, the problem with long-cooldown is the possibility of a spy from another faction camping it and wasting it. The resource cost is also problematic due to the fact that you don't only have to worry about spies but people who don't really know what they're doing either. I would probably get a little irked if we lost a push on a base due to not being able to spawn vehicles because some random dude wanted to play around with arty for no real reason.
I think that adding a personal resource pool in addition to the continent resource pool would help with the latter problem but I can't really think of a fix for the first. What do you guys think?

Atheosim · 2012-05-30, 04:54 PM

Well I imagine OSs will be very scalable, from a few shells to a massive barrage of shells. If you want do have the same type of destructive power as a PS1 CR5 OS, you'll probably need to dig into the majority of your resource pool.

Atheosim · 2012-05-30, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by RoninAfro

First off, I want to say that I really like the idea of capturable/destructable artillery structures in a facility. However, I foresee some issues that would need to be addressed, primarily with the need for it to cost resources and have a long cooldown.
As much as I hate using the "OMG SPIES!!" argument, the problem with long-cooldown is the possibility of a spy from another faction camping it and wasting it. The resource cost is also problematic due to the fact that you don't only have to worry about spies but people who don't really know what they're doing either. I would probably get a little irked if we lost a push on a base due to not being able to spawn vehicles because some random dude wanted to play around with arty for no real reason.
I think that adding a personal resource pool in addition to the continent resource pool would help with the latter problem but I can't really think of a fix for the first. What do you guys think?

I might have missed something entirely, but don't you get a dividend of the income of your empire's holdings of the continent you are currently on? I don't think there's any type of resource aside from personal resource effectively.

Nick · 2012-05-30, 04:57 PM

Great, another crappy feature from a Battlefield game no one asked for.

/sigh

Atheosim · 2012-05-30, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Nick

Great, another crappy feature from a Battlefield game no one asked for.

/sigh

HAHAHAHAHA WHAT!!?!?!?

NCLynx · 2012-05-30, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Nick

Great, another crappy feature from a Battlefield game no one asked for.

/sigh

0/10, you're not even trying.

Stardouser · 2012-05-30, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Atheosim

HAHAHAHAHA WHAT!!?!?!?

Well, orbital strike for CRs is from PS1, but if a lot of people get it, that's more like Battlefield Bad Company 2. In BC2 all recon can choose Mortar Strike which reloaded in like 30 or 45 seconds and was unlimited in ammo.

RoninAfro · 2012-05-30, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Atheosim

I might have missed something entirely, but don't you get a dividend of the income of your empire's holdings of the continent you are currently on? I don't think there's any type of resource aside from personal resource effectively.

I wouldn't put it past me to have greatly misunderstood the resource system.

Would we still chalk up cross-faction griefers to just something we have to deal with, though? I'm trying to make it work in my head without it being underpowered or easily exploitable.

Immigrant · 2012-05-30, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Malorn

They could also add artillery as capturable and also a destroyable structure, like one of many capture nodes for a facility. One capturable node could be an artillery battery that could be used to bombard targets on the other side of the continent using a map-based targeting system from inside a control room.

Originally Posted by Stardouser

This. I was thinking that if people hate Flails because they can move, there could be several locations throughout a continent that are nominally in the middle of nowhere in which an empire can send a team of engineers and build artillery firebases. Since they would be constructed structures, they could be destroyed by bombardment, OR they could be captured intact by infantry. This would add depth to the engineer role, encourage combat away from main bases, and, since these locations would be fixed, you always know where they are if they are bombing you.

I like these ideas however I would if artillery actually had to be manned to work, not on auto-aim. Easy kills would be worth the wait for arty guys once the infantry front-lines designate the targets. Also it would prevent arty spam since you'd be limited by numbers of artillery emplacements, guys manning them and actual effectiveness would be regulated by their skill to aim.

Adding an orbital strike feature into a game in which almost everything is or can be controlled by actual players just seems out-of-place to me. Yes to these kind of strikes in general, but I would like it even more if players could actually fire those strikes.

Stardouser · 2012-05-30, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Immigrant

I like these ideas however I would if artillery actually had to be manned to work, not on auto-aim. Easy kills would be worth the wait for arty guys once the infantry front-lines designate the targets. Also it would prevent arty spam since you'd be limited by numbers of artillery emplacements, guys manning them and actual effectiveness would be regulated by their skill to aim.

Adding an orbital strike feature into a game in which almost everything is or can be controlled by actual players just seems out-of-place to me. Yes to these kind of strikes in general, but I would like it even more if players could actually fire those strikes.

Right, goes without saying that they should be manned.

Although, there is an intermediate possibility, whatever the artillery strike they have planned now, could ONLY be available if your empire builds and holds one of these firebases in a hex that's adjacent(or within 2 hexes, whatever). Of course, for that, they'd not longer be able to call it "orbital" strike, but at least it would no longer be an off map, unlimited resource.

Graywolves · 2012-05-30, 05:32 PM

This could be the bittervet in me but I really just want to use a CUD and call down whatever strike I want and then wait a while before doing it again.