Move towards single-player vehicles? - Page 2

Daimond · 2012-06-09, 11:41 AM

I dont mind the idea but think it should be something they can cert into, not start out with. Cuase in my opion if you want to drive and gun, then get a Lighning.
The hole idea of PS is co-operation, not a one man team, and this promotes that.

ArcIyte · 2012-06-09, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by RedKnights

The idea is, if you're investing all these resources yourself into making yourself a better tank driver, they want you to be able to full use the tank yourself and get that satisfaction.

What about all those certs I put into the Sunderer/Liberator/Galaxy? I'm investing all these points into being a better pilot and yet other people are reaping the rewards!!

Tanks should have always been 2 man imo. Give them the assist killspam that medics get from TF2, so that they get recognition in chat and the kills that the gunner gets. Give them a coaxial MG (another gun to customize and make money off of) so they can attack enemies too.

kaffis · 2012-06-09, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

What about all those certs I put into the Sunderer/Liberator/Galaxy? I'm investing all these points into being a better pilot and yet other people are reaping the rewards!!

Tanks should have always been 2 man imo. Give them the assist killspam that medics get from TF2, so that they get recognition in chat and the kills that the gunner gets. Give them a coaxial MG (another gun to customize and make money off of) so they can attack enemies too.

Seconded on all points.

Haro · 2012-06-09, 01:41 PM

I think TB demonstrated very well the danger of a lone tank driver: without the cover of AI or AA fire from the secondary turret, expect a Light Assault to drop on your head with a big C4 surprise.

There aren't any more single-player vehicles than there were in Planetside. Every vehicle that had more than one player in PS1 has it in PS2. It's just that drivers can do more in PS1 than in 2, but they're giving up more for that.

I SandRock · 2012-06-10, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by ArcIyte

What about all those certs I put into the Sunderer/Liberator/Galaxy? I'm investing all these points into being a better pilot and yet other people are reaping the rewards!!

Tanks should have always been 2 man imo. Give them the assist killspam that medics get from TF2, so that they get recognition in chat and the kills that the gunner gets. Give them a coaxial MG (another gun to customize and make money off of) so they can attack enemies too.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Give the driver shared kills and everything. And let them operate the 'secondary' gun instead.

Originally Posted by Haro

I think TB demonstrated very well the danger of a lone tank driver: without the cover of AI or AA fire from the secondary turret, expect a Light Assault to drop on your head with a big C4 surprise.

There aren't any more single-player vehicles than there were in Planetside. Every vehicle that had more than one player in PS1 has it in PS2. It's just that drivers can do more in PS1 than in 2, but they're giving up more for that.

The thing is, why bring a heavy tank with two occupant when that other occupant can get out and bring his own heavy tank / lightning which will do more damage than if he had gunned for his mate. Because two individual vehicles are better than one multi-gunned vehicle.

It should be that two gunners in a single vehicle make a more powerful unit than two separate vehicles (with one gunner).

Greenthy · 2012-06-10, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by I SandRock

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Give the driver shared kills and everything. And let them operate the 'secondary' gun instead.

The thing is, why bring a heavy tank with two occupant when that other occupant can get out and bring his own heavy tank / lightning which will do more damage than if he had gunned for his mate. Because two individual vehicles are better than one multi-gunned vehicle.

It should be that two gunners in a single vehicle make a more powerful unit than two separate vehicles (with one gunner).

Because resources are limited.

I am all for pilots having the main gun. It gives the player more personal satisfaction instead of being (as mentioned) glorified chauffeurs.
Why spend resources if your passenger gets all the fun/credit/kills.

The current PS1 system is fine if you're like playing with friends/family/outfit.
But to rely on the first stranger to pop in your tank to earn something for your spent credits... Doesn't feel right.

Plenty of other ways to promote teamplay I'd say. Making the second turret more than just a prop-shooter will already help in that.

Azren · 2012-06-10, 04:41 AM

Originally Posted by Greenthy

Because resources are limited.

I am all for pilots having the main gun. It gives the player more personal satisfaction instead of being (as mentioned) glorified chauffeurs.
Why spend resources if your passenger gets all the fun/credit/kills.

The current PS1 system is fine if you're like playing with friends/family/outfit.
But to rely on the first stranger to pop in your tank to earn something for your spent credits... Doesn't feel right.

Plenty of other ways to promote teamplay I'd say. Making the second turret more than just a prop-shooter will already help in that.

If resources are so limited that you can not pull a tank whenever you want, vehicles won't be used anyway. Seeing how squishy the ground vehicles are, if you add high cost to them, they will not be used.

Goldeh · 2012-06-10, 04:47 AM

Driving is boring. Period.

Reason why driving is boring is because your disconnected from the fight. You're doing nothing really, you're driving around basically, or not driving at all.. gotta keep the gun steady after all.

How lame is it to spend 200 or so Auraxiam points on a massive metal beast only to drive it around and let some other dude who hasn't contributed to paying for it have all the fun with the main gun while you have to taxi his ass too and fro between fights. How lame. Or reverse the roll, beg on chat to have someone drive for you while you gun it. Lame is lame. The way I see it, "drivers" are simple people. They can't mutitask. Doesn't take "skill" to drive away or drive somewhere, it just doesn't.

"No! Teamwork! We need more teamwork"

What? The teamwork is when you gather 50 of your tank buddies to roll over a Vanu's face, that's teamwork on a massive scale right thar. I thought that was the point of the game is massive teamwork on a massive scale? Cos' if you tell me to drive a tank that's 25 less tanks on the field since I can't gun and drive my tank so I might as well get in yours. More tanks (50) means more cordination, thus more teamwork required right? I'm confused...wheres the no teamwork?

Also, you get the second turret on top of the main gun! A turret that I add, is that's actually worth a squirt of piss. You can even cordinate with your Second gunner with the main gun to maximaze firepower! Teamwork! BAM! Now everyone can be involved in the actual battle instead of being a glorified taxi driver for someone elses fun.

Greenthy · 2012-06-10, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Azren

If resources are so limited that you can not pull a tank whenever you want, vehicles won't be used anyway. Seeing how squishy the ground vehicles are, if you add high cost to them, they will not be used.

I'm considering that the cost is high enough to discourage non-stop tanking:
You take advantage of the 'downtime' of your friend and switch around driving a tank.

Although I agree that it really depends on the cost/income. But for now it's all theory

Besides that, the primary reason to discourage one-man tanking is the need for AI/AA. The cost of the tanks is something I'm just to be the second major factor. (as the first one is being discussed here already)

Bags · 2012-06-10, 04:58 AM

Yeah, the liberator, Galaxy, Sunderer, 3 ES tanks with 2 slots all encourage to you solo.

ringring · 2012-06-10, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Goldeh

Driving is boring. Period.

Reason why driving is boring is because your disconnected from the fight. You're doing nothing really, you're driving around basically, or not driving at all.. gotta keep the gun steady after all.

How lame is it to spend 200 or so Auraxiam points on a massive metal beast only to drive it around and let some other dude who hasn't contributed to paying for it have all the fun with the main gun while you have to taxi his ass too and fro between fights. How lame. Or reverse the roll, beg on chat to have someone drive for you while you gun it. Lame is lame. The way I see it, "drivers" are simple people. They can't mutitask. Doesn't take "skill" to drive away or drive somewhere, it just doesn't.

"No! Teamwork! We need more teamwork"

What? The teamwork is when you gather 50 of your tank buddies to roll over a Vanu's face, that's teamwork on a massive scale right thar. I thought that was the point of the game is massive teamwork on a massive scale? Cos' if you tell me to drive a tank that's 25 less tanks on the field since I can't gun and drive my tank so I might as well get in yours. More tanks (50) means more cordination, thus more teamwork required right? I'm confused...wheres the no teamwork?

Also, you get the second turret on top of the main gun! A turret that I add, is that's actually worth a squirt of piss. You can even cordinate with your Second gunner with the main gun to maximaze firepower! Teamwork! BAM! Now everyone can be involved in the actual battle instead of being a glorified taxi driver for someone elses fun.

Fair points. But whiule driving can be boring it actually the more skilled role in a tank while gunning is more point shoot.

By far the most fun tank to drive in PS1 was the magrider and the driver had an effective, if not the main, gun. Crucially it was able to strafe and the drivers gun wasn't located on the turret.

Handling the Lightning was more of a handful.

The solution to this is to give the driver the minor gun and his oppo the big dog and Higby has indicated that they are looking at that.

Azren · 2012-06-10, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Goldeh

Driving is boring. Period.

Reason why driving is boring is because your disconnected from the fight. You're doing nothing really, you're driving around basically, or not driving at all.. gotta keep the gun steady after all.

How lame is it to spend 200 or so Auraxiam points on a massive metal beast only to drive it around and let some other dude who hasn't contributed to paying for it have all the fun with the main gun while you have to taxi his ass too and fro between fights. How lame. Or reverse the roll, beg on chat to have someone drive for you while you gun it. Lame is lame. The way I see it, "drivers" are simple people. They can't mutitask. Doesn't take "skill" to drive away or drive somewhere, it just doesn't.

"No! Teamwork! We need more teamwork"

What? The teamwork is when you gather 50 of your tank buddies to roll over a Vanu's face, that's teamwork on a massive scale right thar. I thought that was the point of the game is massive teamwork on a massive scale? Cos' if you tell me to drive a tank that's 25 less tanks on the field since I can't gun and drive my tank so I might as well get in yours. More tanks (50) means more cordination, thus more teamwork required right? I'm confused...wheres the no teamwork?

Also, you get the second turret on top of the main gun! A turret that I add, is that's actually worth a squirt of piss. You can even cordinate with your Second gunner with the main gun to maximaze firepower! Teamwork! BAM! Now everyone can be involved in the actual battle instead of being a glorified taxi driver for someone elses fun.

This might be a longshot, but I presume that you never player PS1. If you did you knew how much more engaging driving is then just being a taxi. While your points may be valid in a game where vehicles are overpowered, but very limited in number (like BF series), in game where they come in umlimited number, the difficulty of keeping them alive is enhanced greatly.
Get preoccupied with one target for two seconds and you might very well be on your way to the spawning area again.
In the long run the drivergunner setup will cost you more then a dedicated driver setup would as your longevity will be redudec greatly. Reason for this is very simple; driving requires you to have a constant understanding of your surroundings including enemy movements and positions. Gunning requires you to concentrate on one target. Hence, gunning reduces your situational awareness.

Originally Posted by Greenthy

I'm considering that the cost is high enough to discourage non-stop tanking:
You take advantage of the 'downtime' of your friend and switch around driving a tank.

Although I agree that it really depends on the cost/income. But for now it's all theory

Besides that, the primary reason to discourage one-man tanking is the need for AI/AA. The cost of the tanks is something I'm just to be the second major factor. (as the first one is being discussed here already)

You can non-stop tank, if you don't die in a few seconds. What you will not be able to do is pull tank after tank and just die to the first enemy.

On the other hand, having high cost would encourage tanks to use gunners, but with the low armor they have, this is not likeley.

Originally Posted by Bags

Yeah, the liberator, Galaxy, Sunderer, 3 ES tanks with 2 slots all encourage to you solo.

liberator, Galaxy, Sunderer are support usnits.
The tanks allow you to swich to secondary gun by pressing one button instantly. Yes, very encouraging.

Bags · 2012-06-10, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by Azren

liberator, Galaxy, Sunderer are support usnits.

And that somehow makes them not vehicles?

Originally Posted by Azren

The tanks allow you to swich to secondary gun by pressing one button instantly. Yes, very encouraging.

You only become a sitting duck. It's not like tanks in this build die in 3 - 4 shots from another tank or anything.

Just me, if you solo in your tank as of now you're doing it wrong, unless resource wise it works out to be more efficient to just pull two.

Shogun · 2012-06-10, 06:07 AM

i just don´t understand why the devs have done this.

the lightning is a badass 1 man tank and all vehicles are available without certing to everybody now. so the bf kiddys who don´t understand the concept of a two man tank are already catered to.

in ps1 you had to sacrifice something to be able to drive the lightning. this isn´t even the case anymore.

so why are they taking away the great concept of ps1 2man tanks?

if you rage because you have to sacrifice ressources for just driving something, someone else will gun in, you could still draw a lightning. in a sunderer you don´t get to gun as well and you pay the ressources!
don´t ask what your empire can do for you, ask what you can do for your empire!

and driving without gunning is far from boring. if you think it´s boring, you just don´t get what it´s all about (and again you should get your lightning or fighter).

tanks need to have dedicated drivers. period!
if you really have to please bf kiddys who would cry if they cannot get control over the gun of EVERY vehicle as the driver, force THEM to spec in this. don´t punish the real tank teams just to prevent their whining.

i would like the old system (2 men needed). but i would tolerate a cert to be able to get gun control as driver.
and if the magrider is the problem, switch the guns and put the maingun on the turret and you are set. worked in ps1,too. or redesign it. you redesigned a lot of stuff more than one time.

JacksonFatBack · 2012-06-10, 06:23 AM

I don't understand SoE's thinking on this one. I know it's popular to accuse SoE of pandering to the greater audience, but I think that;s exactly what's happening here.

First, there are single player tanks, such as lightnings. And if that isn't enough, add a few more.

If it were up to me, lightnings would be ~40% of the strength of a full mag/vanny. Keep in mind that having to coordinate between the gunner and driver can be challenging. In addition, the lightning can have greater mobility versus the MBTs.

Want to have full use of the certs you spent? Buy a Lightning. Want that more powerful shot but have to get a gunner? Grab a MBT.

I don't even really understand what is so bad about driving. I usually preferred it over gunning. Another solution is to just let the one who has the cert gun, and then let anyone drive.

Finally, what about other vehicles, such as the liberator, sunderer, and deliverer? I sure hope the bomber/tailgun on the lib are not just accessories to the main gun.

Edit: Totally agree with the guy above me, Shogun. We pretty much stated the exact same thing.