Make smoke grenades universal.

[Stardouser]

Waiting for beta means nothing if SOE won't test it on all classes. If everyone's going to take that stance, SOE won't test things in the way they need to be, and this goes beyond just smoke.

Originally Posted by Malorn

Frags cost resources, and assuming they get their resource model right that should limit their spam. And they can always increase the cost until it's a luxury.

Smokes on LA makes sense. They lack teamwork abilities, giving them that sort of thing makes them useful to a squad. If you give them to everyone then LA becomes relegated to a pilot/lonewolf class.

Teamwork abilities plural, you're right. But for one specific ability, if it needs to be for all classes, then it simply needs to be for all classes.

[Pyreal]

Originally Posted by Stardouser

Waiting for beta means nothing if SOE won't test it on all classes. If everyone's going to take that stance, SOE won't test things in the way they need to be, and this goes beyond just smoke.

We need to wait for beta because this isn't an issue that arises from PS1. SOE knows that anyone who finds fault with this grenade issue is speaking purely out of self interest, not what's best for the game.

It's not based on balance, effectiveness, or anything factual, it simply 'I don't like it'. They won't pay attention to that.


That the Wait for Beta option is the popular one further shows SOE that the posters here aren't likely to find it an issue with smoke unless it would be more effective elsewhere, or somehow unbalances LA.

Neither of these things can be determined until Beta.

[Stardouser]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

We need to wait for beta because this isn't an issue that arises from PS1. SOE knows that anyone who finds fault with this grenade issue is speaking purely out of self interest, not what's best for the game.

It's not based on balance, effectiveness, or anything factual, it simply 'I don't like it'. They won't pay attention to that.


That the Wait for Beta option is the popular one further shows SOE that the posters here aren't likely to find it an issue with smoke unless it would be more effective elsewhere, or somehow unbalances LA.

Neither of these things can be determined until Beta.

Smoke spam is the only argument against that I'm seeing that has anything to do with what's best for the game, but I am reminded of how huge and obscuring tank shell explosions are...

Now, there's another issue related to smoke spam. In many games that have this(Well, Battlefield, anyway), smoke grenades fully dissipate in 3-4 seconds and don't cover much. If smoke grenades last longer and mean something in PS2, then maybe the spam argument means more. What I'm worried about is that when beta does come, people might simply say, instead of wait for beta, "oh it's fine just leave like they have it, no need to even test anything different".

[xnorb]

Originally Posted by Pyreal

1: Smoke is most useful for advancing, and LA will be the forward assaulter.
2: LA, after losing Resupply needs class specific utility.
3: Smoke, being LA only, fosters teamwork and class interdependency.
4: Making smoke universal may lead to over-use, or under-use, as it gets passed over for damage grenades.

Once again a BF3 example as it demonstrates game fails perfectly:

Assault got under-barrel smoke launcher, but can't resupply himself.
In 90% of the rounds that means: Once you fired your 3 nades it's over.
You will not shoot any more than those 3, simply because you don't get
resupplies (either because you're far ahead of the resupplying class or only
retards around you that don't give you ammo)


In Bad Company on the other hand assaults were able to resupply themselves
and not even in Rush - a game mode in which smoke=win - it was overused.

It might be that PS1 players were the teamwork-master race and everybody
was only playing the objectives, always working together and stuff, but i
can already tell you that PS2 will be full of lonewolves completely ignoring
the objectives and not caring about the needs of their teammates.


Therefore i'd give the smoke grenades to a class that can resupply itself.
(Ya, IMO LA should have the ammokit)

[Otleaz]

Give it to the squad leader.

[Vreki]

Smoke spam kills frame rates, so it needs to be limited.
I would personally prefer it on the medic class, so they can cover themselves while reviveng a fallen teamate.
My expecience from other games tell me that teammates may occasionally understand the value of putting smoke on a target, but covering a medic while he revies? Not going to happen.
Light Assault could get a monopoly on the offensive grenades.

[fvdham]

I would be ok with a musket was for sale to every1
so you and your 100 friends can line up and make a smokescreen.

Can we have a musket-only planet?

[Otleaz]

Originally Posted by fvdham

I would be ok with a musket was for sale to every1
so you and your 100 friends can line up and make a smokescreen.

Can we have a musket-only planet?

Muskets are stupid.

[Khrakhan]

Frag, smoke, and flash grenades should be the three generic universal grenades. Imo, limiting these most common fps grenades is too class restricting.

I understand wanting the balance and don't want smoke spams but....well, I don't want an enemy squad to frag spam the room I'm defending either, but I'm not gonna ask for frags to be limited to just one class either.

If you ask me, a squad all throwing a separate smoke grenade before an assault would just add to the realism and intensity of the battle. The anticipation while watching the cloud, just waiting for the enemy to finally show themselves....or is it just a diversion while they're coming at us from another entrance?

I don't know, but to me though there is a difference between class differentiation/balance and being too limiting/restricting. The LA has his role, and he can very well still carry smokes if he wants to use them. Can only 'balance' things out so much before things just get too restrictive/unrealistic.

The engineer/medic has their glue gun, and their respective glue guns are theirs and theirs alone. That makes sense because as a class, they have the 'training' to use such equipment. However, a grenade is a grenade to say a certain class cant use a simple smoke grenade is just going too far imo.

Different classes can have their own grenades, but make em a bit more specific to the class....medic has healing grenades, engineers might have shield or jamming grenade or maybe infiltrator has it, the point is that those are a bit more specific to the classes, to where as smoke grenades, along with flash and frags, should be generic and available to all classes since they are just simple grenades.

/$.04

[Noivad]

Ill wait for beta. I play war Inc Battlezone. They have Frag, Flash, and different colors like red , orange, green, ect. You have to pay (Cert) for each one of them though. Most people do not use them. You can put them on all of the classes but the gernades take up a slot that you can put a class specfic item. So a lot of people don't use them. Same for mines. Claymore, and a bounching betty. You have to use a class specfic slot.

So until Beta comes and we see what each class can carry, and what the actual room is in each class inventory, I don't see the point of further discussion.

Besides, the only thing I fear in PS2 is the people who fear to adapt, overcome, and improvise, as they will be the ones who muck things up.

[Russ]

I do not want classes to become homogenized at all. Giving them all smoke can do that, along with smoke spam. To encourage team play in PuGs (of PuUs now? lol) there has to be a distinct line between the classes so you have to rely on others.

Not to mention we havnet seen what the other classes get. All classes have a basic damage grenade slot and a utility grenade (Higby stated that in a vid a while). So there may be things like flashbangs, jammers, decoys, or who knows that the other classes get. So we shall see.

[Khrakhan]

Originally Posted by Russ

I do not want classes to become homogenized at all. Giving them all smoke can do that, along with smoke spam. To encourage team play in PuGs (of PuUs now? lol) there has to be a distinct line between the classes so you have to rely on others.

Not to mention we havnet seen what the other classes get. All classes have a basic damage grenade slot and a utility grenade (Higby stated that in a vid a while). So there may be things like flashbangs, jammers, decoys, or who knows that the other classes get. So we shall see.

We're going to be playing in PuSs (Pick up Squads)

Yeah, just as an engineer I was hoping to have the option for smoke for when I have to get out of my vehicle and repair, I can give myself a screen between me and the enemy. Maybe it's a little hopeful....

[Mezorin]

I disagree with the idea, but I picked wait for beta because this is all theory at this point. Light Assault basically has nothing outside of that smoke grenade that might actually help support their mates when moving up. Plus carbines and jump jet are kinda crap when a heavy assault with an LMG is bearing down at them from distance, as its not THAT hard to hit a jumper with a machine gun.

I certainly would not complain about all kits having smoke, as they would be absolutely handy when doing medic emergency rezes. Hell, smoke would be amusing for an infiltrator to ninja style drop one in the middle of a group of enemies then go on a shotgun/SMG rampage, then disappear once cloak recharges but Light Assault should at least have something to them that's unique.

[Policenaut]

I voted "No" at first, but I didn't fully think through that decision. If a person has to choose between smoke grenades and frag grenades, then I don't really see it as being a problem.

[Grognard]

I do not agree with universal. I do not agree with taking it away from the light assault...

However, there is a certain inescapable logic to the Medic having smoke grenades. So, I am convinced, and back the idea of only the medic getting smoke also. Too much synergy, I think this is a good call.