MAX AA still viable? - Page 2

Rbstr · 2012-11-18, 08:26 PM

A tank can take out infantry easily. Why do you think it's any different when it's an aircraft?

There's a big difference between a dude with a rocket launcher taking down aircraft with impunity and an anti-air ground vehicle ruining an airplane's day.
Especially when infantry classes are free and the tank and aircraft cost resources.

A pilot that gets hit by an ("an". You guys seem to have a really hard time with comprehension. "An" would be singular) infantry based rocket and runs should get out. The dude hovering and spamming rockets should go down.
Just like a tank doesn't evaporate when faced with an infantry dude but can still die, air should be the same.

Dkamanus · 2012-11-18, 08:29 PM

The thing is, what does easily means? Having to unload 56 shots of flak on an airplane, hitting all of them, meaning one kill = easy? If you actually trying to fly on an area with 4 MAXes being dedicated AA you are supposed to die, unless you are one hell of a pilot.

And people were getting pissed off that they were hovering and getting owned by flak. Its the way it is, and should be. You want to make good use of those pods? Make strafing runs, not hover above AA and expect to live.

Dreamcast · 2012-11-18, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

A tank can take out infantry easily. Why do you think it's any different when it's an aircraft?

There's a big difference between a dude with a rocket launcher taking down aircraft with impunity and an anti-air ground vehicle ruining an airplane's day.
Especially when infantry classes are free and the tank and aircraft cost resources.

A pilot that gets hit by an ("an". You guys seem to have a really hard time with comprehension. "An" would be singular) infantry based rocket and runs should get out. The dude hovering and spamming rockets should go down.
Just like a tank doesn't evaporate when faced with an infantry dude but can still die, air should be the same.

Yeah a tank can take out infantry easily like aircraft.....Only difference is that Infantry can actually kill tanks, Like I said I can single handily take out a tank.

I can't take out a plane single handily or even with other infantry since they have immunity from missles with flairs and can easily run away.

A dude hovering/spamming shouldn't be able to use flares instantly IMO....or any pilot for that matter....it should take a while for the flares to work.

Air has a huge advantage compared to Vehicles in terms of survivability.

Is sad that

Infantry>Air/vehicles

Vehicles>Air/Infantry

Air>AIR.

Since no vehicle or infantry can take on AIR single handily but Air can take on anybody single handily

Reaver · 2012-11-19, 03:55 AM

AA has to be grouped to be effective at killing air in the current meta and hopefully stays that way. The problem with making AA very good at killing air craft is that due to the render distance pilots take fire from 2 to 3 hexas a time. This can be potentially a lot of maxes or skyguards laying into an esf, and this is magnified ten fold when AA is powerful because everyone pulls one when air shows up on scene. Right now its the reverse because AA is so weak no one pulls an AA max unless the esf starts becoming a real problem.

In my opinion the current AA max damage and accuracy is acceptable and does it's job, you get two AA maxes working in tandem and you will kill the unlucky esf who crosses your area. The problem is finding people who are willing to bite the bullet and pull them. So the real solution I think is increasing the xp for assists and maybe even damage done regardless if you kill your target or not. This will create an incentive for people to actually use the AA max when they're on their own and not coordinating with others.

My rant aside and to answer your question, its going to shift on which will be better. For the first week or two while no one has certed flairs the HA launcher will be the best AA option. Once flairs become common place flakk will be the better AA weapon type.

Goldeh · 2012-11-19, 05:52 AM

Trying to be dedicated AA is more punishment than reward.

I think the irony will be for most who are interested in being a dedicated AA is that they'll get their certs for their AA, from not being any where near AA.. If this kind of damage stays in, then it needs to have a different xp system.

A 'Get it Now' instead of 'Get it later'.

Ranik Ortega · 2012-11-19, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Reaver

AA has to be grouped to be effective at killing air in the current meta and hopefully stays that way. The problem with making AA very good at killing air craft is that due to the render distance pilots take fire from 2 to 3 hexas a time.

Completely disagree and every decent player should as well. Max / AA rendering issues aside. It takes 2-4 of every type of AA to have any chance to kill a single ESF. Even skyguards have to work in groups of 2-3 to accomplish anything.

The same is far from true of A2G.

Nerf A2G into the floor, or give AA it's teeth back. Then we can call it balance.

Until then? It's just entitled pilots trying to keep AA gimped.

Sifer2 · 2012-11-19, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Ranik Ortega

Nerf A2G into the floor, or give AA it's teeth back. Then we can call it balance.

Until then? It's just entitled pilots trying to keep AA gimped.

I feel the same way. Though they can't really nerf the A2G capabilities of the Liberator at least without making it useless for what it's really meant to do. I guess one solution is making it mostly about range. Make AA accurate, and powerful at lower altitudes. Make the pods on ESF's have such terrible accuracy you can't kill ground with them unless your willing to risk going into the danger zone where single AA units can, and will kill you before you have time to get away. Libs with their longer range artillery cannon would be less vulnerable.

Then I imagine we would see more pilots using ESF's for air combat instead of farming ground with impunity. And their primary targets would be the high altitude Libs. Might actually create a circle of counters again instead of just ESF/Lib > Everything.

Rothnang · 2012-11-19, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

Air should be able to dive in and launch some rockets and get out against a few flak cannons.

I would completely agree if it wasn't for the fact that launching some rockets has the potential of granting you kills, so it's not a balanced situation. Fighter comes in, kills something and runs away may be better than fighter comes in, kills something and then sticks around and kills something else - but its still a losing proposition for the AA players.

maradine · 2012-11-19, 02:13 PM

Increase AA lethality.

Increase pilot threat awareness instrumentation.

Problems solve selves.

Reizod · 2012-11-19, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Muro

havent experienced the nerf myself

is the MAX AA still considered the best AA option or is the HA AA Rocket making name?

As long as the rendring distance is broken for us Pilots, the Max AA is indeed one of the best AA deterents.

Sturmhardt · 2012-11-19, 02:16 PM

Usually I don't care too much about aircraft and AA because I'm an infantry guy. But recently aircrafts have been harrassing me all over the map so I guess AA could use a buff because right now aircraft are EVERYWHERE and they annoy me.

Buggsy · 2012-11-19, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by Rbstr

Personally I prefer ground-AA to be more of an area-denial weapon.

Strange, that's how I feel about air. Rocketpods should tickle me, and drive me away, not kill me.

Buggsy · 2012-11-19, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ranik Ortega

Completely disagree and every decent player should as well. Max / AA rendering issues aside. It takes 2-4 of every type of AA to have any chance to kill a single ESF. Even skyguards have to work in groups of 2-3 to accomplish anything.

The same is far from true of A2G.

Nerf A2G into the floor, or give AA it's teeth back. Then we can call it balance.

Until then? It's just entitled pilots trying to keep AA gimped.

Option A: Nerf rocketpods into the floor. They should not be able to kill tanks in the rear in 1.5 seconds. The only way you could possibly balance rocketpods with AA is to allow AA to kill an ESF in half that amount 0.75 seconds at over 200 meters range.

Rocketpods kill infantry in 1 second, kill tanks in 1 second, kill other ESF's in 1 second, they are the fastest unit in the game. The only way to balance rocketpods with AA is to also make AA so insanely and stupidy powerful it would be insta-death for ESF's. Unfortunately that also imbalances liberators/galaxies. So the only option is A) Nerf rocketpods into the floor.

__________________

I figured out how it seems like you die in less than 1 second to rocketpods in a tank, while pilots insist it takes longer than 1 second. The Doppler effect increasing frequency. An ESF is traveling at 200 KPH, shooting rockets at what 100 KPH. It might take 2-3 seconds of trigger time in the air, but on the receiving end it is actually 1 second between when the rockets start hitting you and when they stop (seems like insta-death).