Tactical Misconceptions Pt1: Bio Lab.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Wrong OP.

Defenders could hold a biodome - if most of them played with that goal in mind.

But you earn more certs by only defending the choke points and trying to maintain the fight at the choke points as long as possible. If you do this you eventually will fall but you can drag out out and get lots of kills.

If you play smart drive the enemy back and shut off his access to teleporters you get almost no certs for all your bother.
Last night for instance for some reason we did all the right stuff and push back an invasion. It was actually kind of lame. A lot of messing around for little gain.

Than how exactly am I wrong?

The Biolab is designed for zergish farming, you just said that. Not to mention that other bases cannot provide even that. Do you agree with me on that?

[Figment]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Wrong OP.

If he's wrong, then why are you... confirming all his claims?



Seems like you missed the point of the OP... As in. Completely.

Originally Posted by DirkSmacker

I see what the OP is saying, but I rather like fighting in biolabs. If they were to make them more defensible by eliminating an attacking TP, I'd hope they would only do that on one biolab per map to add some variety.

It's more that there should be a viable way to push out for defenders to win, rather than stalemate endlessly at max.

[Rivenshield]

Originally Posted by Canaris

akin to the PS1 base layout, they really need to turn the bases back into fortresses.

Not going to happen.

We're not the target audience for this game. The run-&-gun instant-gratification CoD kiddies are.

/morose

[AThreatToYou]

Light Assaults problem in your biolab?

LOOK UP. IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?

if it is really that hard,

Go grab LA, jump on the roof tops, and fight them on their own level. Having a good squad of LAs shut down the ceilings to hostiles will make it easier for your faction to farm, and for you too!

[Figment]

Ugh, "L2P-noob"-status-quo-defenders can get really annoying with their lack of analysis will, lack of future vision or even descerning capacity of need for L2P comments by simply assuming by default someone else "just doesn't know how to deal with it".

Annoying as hell. Newsflash AThreatToYou: NewSith isn't a noob. He deals with it.

[Timealude]

Originally Posted by Rivenshield

Not going to happen.

We're not the target audience for this game. The run-&-gun instant-gratification CoD kiddies are.

/morose

Although I agree something needs to be done about the base defense, I dont think turning it back into corridors and stairs are the way to good. There's a balance you have to work out and it would make it extremely hard to take one of these bases if most of it was completely covered. I like Fig's design in the sense it adds those choke points but there are still ways to get around them if you are smart enough. You can also have vehicles support you if the stairs are outside instead of having the mounted defense like you had in PS1 where all you had to do was sit there with a few people and just constantly fire.

That would then turn the problem back into the farming problem we had with the tech plants, but Ill save that for when the tech plant thread goes up.

The devs need to find the right balance for these choke points otherwise the zerging is going to continue to get worse to where being in an outfit wont matter since you and 100 other people can just rush in shooting without thinking.

[NewSith]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

Light Assaults problem in your biolab?

LOOK UP. IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?

if it is really that hard,

Go grab LA, jump on the roof tops, and fight them on their own level. Having a good squad of LAs shut down the ceilings to hostiles will make it easier for your faction to farm, and for you too!

Okay, I'll do that. Meanwhile why are you assuming I propose to remove or handicap the LAs anyhow?

[ringring]

Take an outlying base with a teleporter, park an AMS outside.
Group up until you haveplenty of maxes engys and medics then go thru and don't hold back.
Attack the gen, within the building holding point B.
Overload the gen and defend the building.
Keep defending the building, it is very defendable because of it's size as grenades are less of a problem and the stairs are good places for the non maxes.
When you can, attack the SCU.
Ignore the capture points until the SCU is down.

[Simokon]

Originally Posted by AThreatToYou

Light Assaults problem in your biolab?

LOOK UP. IS IT REALLY THAT HARD?

if it is really that hard,

Go grab LA, jump on the roof tops, and fight them on their own level. Having a good squad of LAs shut down the ceilings to hostiles will make it easier for your faction to farm, and for you too!

It is pretty amazing how often I run out of ammo before anyone even bothers to look up and wonder where those shots are coming from.

[AThreatToYou]

Originally Posted by NewSith

Okay, I'll do that. Meanwhile why are you assuming I propose to remove or handicap the LAs anyhow?

Good point. I shall say I have misunderstood you.

What do you mean by Light Assault troopers posing a problem in bio labs? They can get anywhere, they contribute to the random-encounter nature of urban warfare. Perhaps a building in BioLabs should be changed to allow non-LAs to at least get to a high perch, above the buildings?

Actually, I like that. It would be a temporary measure, and there would still be places to hide, but making battle a little more vertical wouldn't hurt. I agree that LAs are a problem in BioLabs, but I really only think they are because not enough people who are defending seem to play them.

[Bocheezu]

The only thing they need to do is somehow make the teleporter rooms a contestable room with shields on both sides so that the defenders can use them to assault the satellite bases. Currently, once you lose a satellite base, you're pretty much fucked and have to resort to leaving the biolab and returning with vehicles to take back the satellite bases. Jumppads are a piss-poor option because there's no shield on the other side and you have no idea what you're going to run into after you jump; there could be nobody there or there could be a bunch of dudes sitting there farming. Gravlifts are too far away from satellite bases to be effective for defense.

The one-way teleporter rooms are a massive advantage for the attacking force.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Figment

...ziplines...

As long as we don't get crazy with 'em like in the caves.
God bless the fraggles because if I was forced to go down in there I would end up needing a shower.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by bpostal

As long as we don't get crazy with 'em like in the caves.

Oh please no. X_x

Pie bless waypoints and after a few years knowing where they all go and where the e-terms were...


Similarly, I always liked Routers, due to being creative, flexible, skill based (infiltration), temporary, risky and counterable (and counter-abusable - HOORAY FOR ENEMY ROUTERS LEADING TO SPAWNS/BASEMENT <3 <3 <3 YOU CHEAP EXP WHORING BASTARDS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR BASE!), but I really dislike fixed in place teleport firing squad tubes. :/

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by NewSith

Than how exactly am I wrong?

The Biolab is designed for zergish farming, you just said that. Not to mention that other bases cannot provide even that. Do you agree with me on that?

Yes but you are also saying that by design bio-labs are hard to defend.

They are not hard to defend. Rather its simply more fun and more profitable to play them them in manner that leasts to an eventual loss.





Honestly I cant see why we would want change anything - at least until they add urban terrain.

[thegreekboy]

The big problem with the teleporters is that in order to take that advantage away, you need to actually STOP defending your spawn control and run out to take a camp.