cert rate too extreme - Page 2

Sifer2 · 2012-12-14, 12:36 AM

I think what they need to do is once you have spent say 20 dollars on the game you unlock a permanent 50% xp gain boost. That would encourage everyone to buy something even if its a couple helmets. I do think the default rate of xp gain is just too slow for a casual player. If I push hard I can get 100-150 certs per session an that's several hours of farming the hot spots. That's a long time for 1000 cert weapon. For a casual that's a month or more.

Sunrock · 2012-12-14, 12:57 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

free players are the content. they need to feel they are progressing enough to stay engaged with the game. not progressing fast, progressing fast enough. if they feel the game is too much grind and leaves, the game DIES.

Free players are the content? If you mean free players are free kills for the paying players then I'm all for that.

Seriously though. I know some free players that have not spent a dime on this game that are raking in 50 certs and hour too without any exp bonuses. So your progression is up to how good you are. Stop sucking and you get your certs.

Wahooo · 2012-12-14, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

free players are the content. they need to feel they are progressing enough to stay engaged with the game. not progressing fast, progressing fast enough. if they feel the game is too much grind and leaves, the game DIES.

Free players aren't the content, nor are they the focus. They are filler in this game. There are many different ways i've seen free 2 play implemented. Some bad, some very bad. Very few do it right. The thing is as a business you NEED to have people spend money to survive right? The game can't simply be charity BUT at the same time you need to have a game people WANT to spend money on rather than feel they NEED to spend money on.

Right now you are feeling like you are being pushed to the NEED but don't WANT to spend money. I kinda understand, but at the same time, the way all of the default weapons in the game perform that feeling of need should only be there for a few items. Then there is something to work toward, and that is upgrades for those weapons, which you CAN'T buy.

As has pointed out the game's model is to have some legs and be around for years. You just can't have everything unlockable within, even a few months.

In all as I said i've played some good AND bad free2play models and a lot more bad than good. This one? Is on the good side of the middle I feel. Yes it really is evident they really expect the players to pay a little it would seem it is not meant to be a 100% free to play game. That said however. You are not Gimped from the start and have to pay money to compete. Look at all the threads on the official forums about the CARV and Orion being OP... the default TR and VS HA guns. Most of the default vehicle weapons are really good all around jack of all trades weapons. Myself and many of my outfit mates have only upgraded 1 of the two weapons on the Sunder because we like the default weapon for its utility. Everything you need to be good in the game at some level is yours the moment you log on. To specialize is another step but that is the point.

Some models I like and don't like? Games like APB and Combat arms that are not just pay2win but pay2compete i've never put a dime into nor will I ever even if I have friends that want me to play with them. Bad model you are severely handicapped trying to play for free.
MANY MMO's like SWTOR... a game I did pay for, but now to play again for "free" I actually have to pay more?!?! It is basically an extended trial with very limited access to game function unless you pay. Blackmail as far as i'm concerned and i'm NEVER going to give them another cent.
Games like LoL where you could be good, have fun and even compete at the highest level without putting in money. I personally never got very into it even with friends playing so didn't spend any money but I can easily seeing if I had liked the game WANTING to spend money on it.
There is also the middle ground where some initial money in is all you need, well you don't actually NEED to but really to compete you do... but at the same time it doesn't make you uber and you aren't gimped for having not spent any money it is just there that a small bit of money upfront makes it more enjoyable. I don't mind these games. I think PS2 falls into that category. I've played plenty of "free2play" games this way. I put into the cash shop the amount of money I WOULD have spent if it were a one time purchase and that is IT. Nothing more ever needed and nothing more ever given and it worked. PS2 I believe is in that boat.

Sunrock · 2012-12-14, 01:05 AM

Only solution is to scrap the F2P business model and go with box price + subs. That way SOE can design games without players feeling that most spend money on the game just to survive.

The old school business mode is allot better from a game play perspective if you ask me. Then the devs don't have to come up with stupid game play models that are just there to make you spend money. All they have to focus on is making a fun game.

Problem is that you make more money on F2P games then the "old school" way because every one goes "EEK!" if they where to up the price on the sub to $20 or $25 a month but the same person that refuse to pay $25 a month for a subscription would not hesitate to spend $250 dollars on stupid fluff micro transactions in the game just because they can keep track of there own money. So all they see is that they pay only $5 and don't care they payed $5 50 times.

Wish more players could think more long term how mush money they really do spend on games. The this F2P plague would never gone this far.

moosepoop · 2012-12-14, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Free players are the content? If you mean free players are free kills for the paying players then I'm all for that.

Seriously though. I know some free players that have not spent a dime on this game that are raking in 50 certs and hour too without any exp bonuses. So your progression is up to how good you are. Stop sucking and you get your certs.

i dont care abot cert gain. i unlocked all my stuff. i care about cert gain for casual free players, who provide content for us.

im alarmed about servers emptying after mere 4 weeks.

when you become focused and obsessed on cert gain since its so vital for progression, it detracts from fun. you also burn out and become fatigued much faster grinding in a mmofps than mmorpg since u need much more focus.

Originally Posted by Wahooo

Free players aren't the content, nor are they the focus. They are filler in this game.

free players are the majority in any f2p game. they leave, planetside 2 dies.

servers are already emptying out. because the current model lacks retaining power.

planetside 2 is not the game to be self centered and ignorant. if you dont care about free players and look down on them, be too harsh on them, the game dies.

Wahooo · 2012-12-14, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

free players are the majority in any f2p game. they leave, planetside 2 dies.

servers are already emptying out. because the current model lacks retaining power.

planetside 2 is not the game to be self centered and ignorant. if you dont care about free players and look down on them, be too harsh on them, the game dies.

Free players come and go and rarely stick around. At any one moment they may make up the majority of the player base (or they may not) but they as individuals are not the ones keeping the game alive with their long term commitment to the game.

Everyone I know who got fed up and stopped playing in this short period of time since release, or have dialed it WAY back have done so not because of the cert gain and none of them were free players. There are other reasons the game is lacking in the ability to retain player, players who planned to be around for a while, than cert gain speed.

Me not feeling bad for people who just want more and want it now, and want it for nothing, is not being self centered and ignorant.

Sunrock · 2012-12-14, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by Wahooo

There are other reasons the game is lacking in the ability to retain player, players who planned to be around for a while, than cert gain speed.

I totally agree with this. If you're worried the cert gain per hour for free players you're worried about one of the least problems this game have to keep players hooked in.

What I think the main problem with this game to keep its players playing:
It's that there is no faction progression long term. Locking a continent is cool and all but it should have higher strategic value then it has today. I hope this change when they put in the new continents. There should also be faction goals that takes week/weeks to lock down too. Not just things that takes a few hours.

Figment · 2012-12-14, 06:00 AM

If you play just to "progress", you're doing it wrong...

If you need to grind to be able to do anything useful, the game is doing it wrong.

Suitepee · 2012-12-14, 06:53 AM

I don't have any problems with the current cert rate. Gives me targets to aim for each time I play, so I can make a little bit more progress towards an unlock I want.

Besides, my heavy assault friends seem to rack up certs quite nicely.

Qwan · 2012-12-14, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by moosepoop

i havent even bothered unlocking any rifles. they all look and shoot the same. i bought the MCG because its the only unique weapon.

i dont understand why the guns have the same textures and sounds and models, and SOE expects us to pay money for them.

when you grind in an mmo, you get fatigued, in planetside i didnt even try to grind or farm certs. just looking at the cost of the weapons made me feel uneasy.

Hey moosepoop just to give you an idea of why the weapons basically look the same with just small differences is because imagine if every weapon in the game looked totally different and you were in a big fight. Your PC and video card would get hammered trying to dispay all these different shapes and textures. So to bring down the video load of your card and PC load they pretty much try not to get to radical. They save all that for the cammo and face mask and stuff for vehicles. See you wouldnt just buy design add-ons for your weapons, but you would for your vehicles and clothing right.

On another note, F2P is not free to play, either they will take your time or they will take your money. I have a monthly and I gain certs at a very good rate, on the double xp weekend I broke 800, on regular nights I can gain 100 - 150, and I get my monthly 500 station cash. Now next month ill be getting another % boost on my xp and hopefully they will do a holiday xp weekend. But this game is not free to play, just ask yourself this what if nobody paid and we just all ground out certs how long do you think this game would last. F2P does not mean free to play. Its all about the money man, Higby dont work for free man.

Qwan · 2012-12-14, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

I totally agree with this. If you're worried the cert gain per hour for free players you're worried about one of the least problems this game have to keep players hooked in.

What I think the main problem with this game to keep its players playing:
It's that there is no faction progression long term. Locking a continent is cool and all but it should have higher strategic value then it has today. I hope this change when they put in the new continents. There should also be faction goals that takes week/weeks to lock down too. Not just things that takes a few hours.

Wow I like this idea Sun,
Weekly faction goals, I guess if the faction captures such and such bases and hold such and such base before friday or say saturday, then there is a cert bonus say like 50 to 100 certs. Or devs can put out certain missions, like on friday they can say, The next faction to hold the crown for 3 hours straight gets so many certs. Or they can start a in game event timer, which rewards the faction certs if they own a certain base when the timer counts down to zero. I also like the Idea of when a continent gets locked, all persons on that continent when it lockes get like 50 to 100 certs. I dont think they should just give certs away for small meaningless stuff, I mean thats how they make that money. But I mean large task that require some type of co-operation. Cool thought man.

Moodel · 2012-12-14, 07:40 AM

Claptrap. Utter rubbish.

Clearly you are not playing enough or working hard enough in game.

Work harder get more certs.

I've always had allot of Station cash from other games and even though I've bought a bunch of stuff (guns etc) its made no appreciable difference in combat other than I have had to adjust how I play.

ItZMuRdA · 2012-12-14, 08:59 AM

I do think that the costs of some things, especially the 700 SC / 1000 Cert items is a bit off. I've never bought a 1000 cert item that was also available for SC. I either used my SC for it or didn't buy it. Even though I've earned thousands of certs, it just wasn't worth the expenditure. On the other hand, the 250 SC / 100 Cert or 500 SC / 250 Cert items I would almost never spend SC on and instead go for certs. I'd personally like to see 500 Certs be the typical max cost for an item instead of 1000, but I don't really mind if the system stays as is, as I plan to farm out most, if not all certs eventually over time. I do understand how it can be discouraging to a new player who doesn't want to spend any SC, though.

belch · 2012-12-14, 09:01 AM

I haven't had an issue making certs, but I have also spent SC on stuff that I thought looked better than what I had available on hand. I didn't have to (default weapons were useable), but I wanted to, and I could afford it. I figure I would have spent $60 on a typical box game, and subbed monthly anyways...so it didn't really bug me to buy the couple of weapons that I have.

I think that other FPS's have spoiled players into expecting weapon and attachment unlocks fairly early. I dunno...it could be like Fallen Earth where you grind away scavenging rubber hoses for weeks to be able to make ammunition or something....

HiroshiChugi · 2012-12-14, 09:13 AM

in all honesty,i think it may be just a LITTLE too steep at first glance for the cert requirements for some weapons, but if you trial them and use them to their full potential,you can see that the cert cost for it is in fact reasonable. take the zephyr; it's basically and AC-130 Spectre Gunship howitzer gun. i love using it and when used to it's full potential, it s worth MORE than the certs you used to buy it (esp. when coupled with thermal vision).just as long as you play the game's weapons and such to the full potential,you will not be so blind to the cert cost reasons. even though i too think them unreasonable at times,i still play the game because of the fun i have earning the certs. so please,just try to have fun playing the game instead of just strictly trying to earn certs and trust me,those certs will just start rollin in ^_^