Is the AV MAX overpowered?

[Emperor Newt]

Originally Posted by Lonehunter

I've never seen an AV MAX in game pose any serious threat, except against other MAXs. That's really all they're good for

Vanu AV maxes are a myth. They dont exist.

[MaxDamage]

Well you've said that trying to kill infantry with AV MAX is easy as NC.
Try killing infantry with TR AV MAX. It was easier with a burster even before the burster AI buff.

Also guy above me said AV MAXes are good against other MAXes... What?! Do I need to try the other empires MAXes? TR AV MAX was good against MAXes in PS1 but is hopeless against them in PS2. I've killed a bunch of sunderers and lightnings with TR MAX, I'm happy with its performance there, but on TR we have no serious counter to the NC MAX. We need alternate fire back from PS1 and projectiles that hit targets more consistently. A functional TR AV MAX could make the difference.

[psijaka]

Originally Posted by SeraphC

A Falcon (single) one hit kills infantry on impact. Seems kind of odd when you look at your chart and it says 750 direct damage.

It's a one salvo kill, in my experience; 2 simultaneous shots, in other words.

Edit - just reached my 1000th kill with Max + dual Falcons

[psijaka]

Originally Posted by MaxDamage

Well you've said that trying to kill infantry with AV MAX is easy as NC.
Try killing infantry with TR AV MAX. It was easier with a burster even before the burster AI buff.

Is this with a single AV Pounder or with dual?

[Badjuju]

At this rate we are going to end up nerfing everything in the game. That would please those who prefer a higher TTK I guess, unless hp was needed as well.

That being said I think this is a non issue. For one they need to stay relevant as a threat against vehicles. They also should be some what effective vs infantry. I believe a direct hit to infantry is a kill ATM which I am perfectly fine with for two reasons. One the long reload time leaves them verry vulnrable and two they are not the easiest weapon to hit infantry with, especially as range increases. Sure they can get some kills but a pack of infantry will tear them to pieces. Outdoors where you will most likely see an AV max, you can single handedly take one down with out too much trouble if you use cover appropriately and watch your distance.

I have never had an issue with the NC av max or any empire for that matter, and it is no where as effective at killing infantry in comparison to AI maxes.

[SeraphC]

Originally Posted by psijaka

It's a one salvo kill, in my experience; 2 simultaneous shots, in other words.

I only have one Falcon yet I still consistently get one hit kills with it. Mind you, I'm rarely alone in these situations, but considering the amount of kills I've had with it I would really be surprised if each of those players had already been damaged by someone else.

[Chaff]

Stats don't always tell the whole story. The TR AV is marginal at best (IMHO). It is not easily aimed, and sucks against other maxes. The Crown can be decently fun for a TR AV Max. If you can stay somewhat concealed with the high ground, it can be an effective deterrent to Sundy's, Lightnings, and even MBTs. It takes a few too many rounds to kill a Mana (IMO). I Rarely see any TR pull dual-pounder. You have to Love maxes to go that route. There are far better options than AV MAX (TR). You launch the damn shells towards the general Zip Code of your target .... which has about three days to move before your volley reaches them. If you wander out in the open & get within 300 meters of a MBT - you're toast.

[Binkley]

I use the NC Max dual Falcon setup with good success against vehicles and infantry.

It's also very good sniper bait.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by Figment

"There are AV MAXes?"

This is exactly what I thought...

Then again I am a TR player, so no one on my side would EVER run duel Pounders and I figured NC's equivalent was the same.

I guess since their rounds don't drop like stones they can actually make use of them, while the VS have Anti-vehicle sniper rounds as always...

Personally lack luster AV is part of the reason I want to see two-handed Heavy MAX weapons, turning a MAX into a much more powerful field weapon at the cost of maneuverability and warm up time.

[MaxDamage]

Originally Posted by psijaka

Is this with a single AV Pounder or with dual?

Dual.

I have killed.. seemingly.. perhaps oddly, they can land at long distances but since you're having to compensate for large drops against a moving target with rounds that don't have much splash damage at all.. if you do, it's half luck even if you are a brilliant aim.

That bugged range thing seems much longer with AV rounds, much like the burster was. Shit just doesn't connect.

If someone wants to load up dual pounders and go max hunting, record a video and show me it's effective, I'll accept it's possible but I've given it a couple of tries and watching them fly around a gigantic NC MAX directly in front of you up to 20-30 feet while they drop you in a second or two - it's not encouraging.

In PS1 AV MAXes were really just anti-MAX MAXes. If that's still the intent then we've traded off our only MAX killing MAX for more vehicle kills.

We are much better against Tanks and Sunderers than in PS1 so I don't know if it's legitimate to complain or not..
So many new trade-offs in this game, things that look unfair until you hold them up in a different light.

[Chewy]

Originally Posted by MaxDamage

Dual.

I have killed.. seemingly.. perhaps oddly, they can land at long distances but since you're having to compensate for large drops against a moving target with rounds that don't have much splash damage at all.. if you do, it's half luck even if you are a brilliant aim.

That bugged range thing seems much longer with AV rounds, much like the burster was. Shit just doesn't connect.

If someone wants to load up dual pounders and go max hunting, record a video and show me it's effective, I'll accept it's possible but I've given it a couple of tries and watching them fly around a gigantic NC MAX directly in front of you up to 20-30 feet while they drop you in a second or two - it's not encouraging.

In PS1 AV MAXes were really just anti-MAX MAXes. If that's still the intent then we've traded off our only MAX killing MAX for more vehicle kills.

We are much better against Tanks and Sunderers than in PS1 so I don't know if it's legitimate to complain or not..
So many new trade-offs in this game, things that look unfair until you hold them up in a different light.

Question-
Are the TR MAX AV weapons cross-eyed?

NC MAX AV weapons are when used dual. Haven't gotten the real numbers on this but from what looks like somewhere around 70m-100m the shots cross paths and to land any hits past that distance you have to adjust for each arm. Iv had times against far off tanks where my shots would land on both sides around the tank.

Iv read that when the mag sizes of the AV weapons where reduced that the devs wanted AV MAXs to fire mini tank shells. Granted that the AV weapons hurt like hell, but I find them near useless outside of compounds. The 3rd thing I bought during the last SC sale was a 2nd falcon. Haven't used them since I seen how cross-eyed they are. I was doing more damage with dual bursters against armor then what I could with dual AV. Still curse the choice to remove burster damage against armor. It made me useful in the times air was off repairing.

[DirtyBird]

Totally agree with you psijaka.
The second Falcon was the last weapon i purchased for the MAX after disliking the single load out but I'm really enjoying playing it now.

Its not a set up imo that you would use looking for a huge K/D in your favour but it can hold its own in the right situations.
Could also consider it to a little too slow for most players.

[AThreatToYou]

ALL anti-vehicle MAX weapons need to be buffed against their intended targets.

That said, I consisitently find the NC AV MAX weapon to be the most useful. It's still not strong enough to do its job aside from annoy tanks, and get the occasional last-hit in. Still, it's an infantry-reponse to vehicles that can actually damage them in some way, shape, or form.

Also, I love 1HK'ing infiltrators with it. At sniper range. Got some hate tells from that.

The Pounder-MAX specifically was something that really shouldn't have been nerf'd from PS1. It was a terror to vehicles if you had a proper lead. The other MAX AV weapons were practically more of an anti-infantry choice that was better at killing other MAX units.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Figment

"There are AV MAXes?"

this

[psijaka]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Question-
Are the TR MAX AV weapons cross-eyed?

NC MAX AV weapons are when used dual. Haven't gotten the real numbers on this but from what looks like somewhere around 70m-100m the shots cross paths and to land any hits past that distance you have to adjust for each arm. Iv had times against far off tanks where my shots would land on both sides around the tank.

Iv read that when the mag sizes of the AV weapons where reduced that the devs wanted AV MAXs to fire mini tank shells. Granted that the AV weapons hurt like hell, but I find them near useless outside of compounds. The 3rd thing I bought during the last SC sale was a 2nd falcon. Haven't used them since I seen how cross-eyed they are. I was doing more damage with dual bursters against armor then what I could with dual AV. Still curse the choice to remove burster damage against armor. It made me useful in the times air was off repairing.

^ THIS

It's because the guns are actually quite far apart, being mounted on the outside of the forearm. As you say, the aim point where the 2 shots converge is somewhere middle range, 50-100m but I've no idea exactly.

So when I shoot at infantry close range, sometimes the shots go either side of them! Or more usually, I don't aim dead centre and I get one hit. I have yet to perfect the art of aiming a bit off to one side, firing one gun, then aiming a bit off to the other side before firing the other. Makes the class tricky to use in CQC, which I suppose is balance. I certainly like to keep a little distance.

How ar eBursters against infantry now? Not used them much of late.