Bunny Hopping - Page 2

Varsam · 2013-02-22, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Why? It can be pure luck. Finding someone who is looking in another direction in a 2000 player game is not exactly skillful. In many times it's just luck, nothing earned at all.

.sent via phone.

because incorporating 'luck' in a competitive, skill-based game makes a victory arbitrary and less meaningful.

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

@rothnang:
Some would say that shooting your opponent (who is moving) exactly in the head while moving and jumping around requires a little bit of skill. A little bit more than is required to kill an unsuspicious, stationary target you happen to find looking in another direction, also known as easy kill.

harder still is trying to shoot a bunny hopping target exactly in the head without resorting to doing so yourself.

Sturmhardt · 2013-02-22, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Varsam

because incorporating 'luck' in a competitive, skill-based game makes a victory arbitrary and less meaningful.

Exactly my point. Luck is an unsatisfying concept in computer games.You don't feel like some guy beat you if you get shot without the possibility to react, you feel like it was bad luck or just a shitty game. Still, if you happen to be lucky and find a guy in ps2 who happens to look in another direction, this is usually what happens due to the low ttk.

.sent via phone.

Aurmanite · 2013-02-22, 06:46 AM

If people are using this:

Just use this:

This game punishes you a lot for jumping.

Aim better.

Or come whine about it on the forums...

Varsam · 2013-02-22, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Sturmhardt

Exactly my point. Luck is an unsatisfying concept in computer games.You don't feel like some guy beat you if you get shot without the possibility to react, you feel like it was bad luck or just a shitty game. Still, if you happen to be lucky and find a guy in ps2 who happens to look in another direction, this is usually what happens due to the low ttk.

.sent via phone.

Then why endorse bunny hopping? The advantage it gives against non-bunny hopping players is disproportionately high compared to the relative ease of execution.

Unless you'd prefer bunny hopping to become the new metagame, in which case I should refer you to Tribes.

Originally Posted by Aurmanite

This game punishes you a lot for jumping.

It really doesn't, especially considering the inclusion of shotguns and laser sights.

Sturmhardt · 2013-02-22, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Varsam

Then why endorse bunny hopping? The advantage it gives against non-bunny hopping players is disproportionately high compared to the relative ease of execution.

Unless you'd prefer bunny hopping to become the new metagame, in which case I should refer you to Tribes.

Bunny hoping is the opposite of luck, it is player controlled. Everybody can do it. If you loose to a guy hopping around you, maybe he is better.

If it's that easy and that effective to bunny hop as you say, why don't you do it too as soon as you meet someone hopping around? Sounds like it would be so easy to kill them by doing it.
Hint: it requires skill. And people don't like skill in today's shooters, because they can loose to skillful players, and loosing is not fun, right?

P.s. you are using the word meta wrong.

.sent via phone.

Thingamyjib · 2013-02-22, 07:43 AM

While I don't think bunny hopping is a big problem I still don't like it as a game mechanic. For those who argue that bunny hopping is a skillful mechanic: Your accuracy goes to the wind when you bunny hop, so whether or not you hit your target while bunny hopping is mostly luck. Skill based mechanics should require skill from the person using said mechanic, the only person bunny hopping requires skill from is the person trying to counter it.

Perhaps this could be fixed simply by having a considerable accuracy decrease for 0.5 - 1 secs and a movement speed modifier for 1 - 1.5 secs after you hit the ground. So when you hit the ground you would be very slow and very inaccurate for a short period. This way it would have very little effect on the Light Assault who remains in the air while shooting yet still discourage bunny hopping.

EDIT: Oh, yes. Also the inabblitiy to jump again for 1 - 2 secs after you hit the ground.

BlaxicanX · 2013-02-22, 07:50 AM

LA's are fine the way they are. Just shoot them, the jetpack doesn't move nearly fast enough to make them a hard target if you've got a steady grip with your mouse, and chances are if they're fighting you in close enough range that using their jetpack disorients you, they're probably even more disoriented themselves. I main LA on my NC account, jetpacking around when someone's already got a bead on you is pretty futile most of the time.

Mietz · 2013-02-22, 07:53 AM

> Bunnyhopping is unrealistic
> Game has jetpacks and flying tanks

Larington · 2013-02-22, 07:54 AM

As far as *I'm* concerned, you shouldn't be allowed to jump again for a full second and a half after landing.

I mean, FFS, if that's how you like to play maybe you should just buy yourself a skipping rope and go play with yourself in the yard all day.

I cannot stand this exploiting of flawed game mechanics to gain an extra advantage, if you're so 'skilled' then YOU DON'T NEED IT, I despise it in the same way I despise the use of *anti-vehicle* rocket pods to farm near-effortless infantry kills (I have begrudging respect for the pilots who kill troops with the nose gun).

HiroshiChugi · 2013-02-22, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

I main LA on my NC account, jetpacking around when someone's already got a bead on you is pretty futile most of the time.

I do as well and agree with you 100%. Especially if you don't jump THEN use your jet pack...lol...

Figment · 2013-02-22, 08:00 AM

You know, there used to be this shooter game where if you jumped, you lost 10% of a stamina bar and where if you ran out of stamina, you could not run anymore and would become a stationary easy target with poor CoF due to the heavy breathing while your character regained breath (back up at 20% stamina). Meanwhile, if you jumped, your accuracy would be momentarily completely off, so you really had to plan your jumps and don't jump during firefights to keep your accuracy high.

Anyone recall what game that was?

It's at the tip of my tongue.

Come on guys, I know some of you know off it.

HiroshiChugi · 2013-02-22, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

You know, there used to be this shooter game where if you jumped, you lost 10% of a stamina bar and where if you ran out of stamina, you could not run anymore and would become a stationary easy target with poor CoF due to the heavy breathing while your character regained breath (back up at 20% stamina). Meanwhile, if you jumped, your accuracy would be momentarily completely off, so you really had to plan your jumps and don't jump during firefights to keep your accuracy high.

Anyone recall what game that was?

It's at the tip of my tongue.

Come on guys, I know some of you know off it.

I know what game you're talking about, but I can't remember the name of it... Wasn't it a PC AND console game?

ShadetheDruid · 2013-02-22, 08:08 AM

Stamina would be a terrible idea, unless you wanted to make all the maps completely flat. Let's not cripple terrain traversal in an attempt to stop people doing stupid things.

Gatekeeper · 2013-02-22, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Stamina would be a terrible idea, unless you wanted to make all the maps completely flat. Let's not cripple terrain traversal in an attempt to stop people doing stupid things.

Meh, it worked fine in PS1, so I don't see what the problem would have been with including it in PS2 - but frankly that ship has sailed, so let's not worry about it.

Back on-topic, I'd very much agree with all of the below:

Originally Posted by Thingamyjib

While I don't think bunny hopping is a big problem I still don't like it as a game mechanic. For those who argue that bunny hopping is a skillful mechanic: Your accuracy goes to the wind when you bunny hop, so whether or not you hit your target while bunny hopping is mostly luck. Skill based mechanics should require skill from the person using said mechanic, the only person bunny hopping requires skill from is the person trying to counter it.

Perhaps this could be fixed simply by having a considerable accuracy decrease for 0.5 - 1 secs and a movement speed modifier for 1 - 1.5 secs after you hit the ground. So when you hit the ground you would be very slow and very inaccurate for a short period. This way it would have very little effect on the Light Assault who remains in the air while shooting yet still discourage bunny hopping.

EDIT: Oh, yes. Also the inabblitiy to jump again for 1 - 2 secs after you hit the ground.

Figment · 2013-02-22, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by ShadetheDruid

Stamina would be a terrible idea, unless you wanted to make all the maps completely flat. Let's not cripple terrain traversal in an attempt to stop people doing stupid things.

How often do you have to jump ten times in a row without any normal walks in between and all the while firing?