Anyone having fun with ESFs?

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

All they need to do to make the dogfighting more dogfighting and less "hover wars" is to nerf the hover ability of the ESF. If you go under 100km the ESF drops out of the sky as a stone and problem solved.

The VTOL aspect of this game has made dog fighting so much more. You have to be creative when flying an ESF in this game and that ****** a lot of people who are used to sims. Treat this game flying like space helicopters under water and it makes much more sense.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by snafus

Flak sucks but our flying community does a good job of chastising most pilots who use A2AM.

Originally Posted by snafus

We just have to play carefully when anywhere near a fight due to Connery's obsession with AA.

Gee, I wonder why that is...

[Micro]

I have pretty fun with my AA Scythe, but as ppl have already said, dogfights in this game don't really work the way they should. If someone gets on your tail, you're most likely going to die/crash in a OP Tree.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

And every one that does not only use a knife to kill is a noob too right?

It takes skill to use A2AM now a days. I had agreed with you if this was during beta when A2AM first was introduced to the game but if you still think they are no skills involved in using then in a dogfight you cant have played the game the last 5-6 months. Or at least it takes skills to use them on experienced pilotes that know what they are doing. And killing noob pilotes are easy no matter what weapon you use.

PS: And yes the A2A gun is allot better then A2AM anway. A2A are only good as a "finisher" if they try to out run you in a strait line or running down a Liberator.

When A2AM are used with a team of ESF they become easy mode. By themselves most A2AM pilots are free kills as they usually lack good dog fighting skills. But when used in tandom with two other dog fighters the A2AM ESF is able to quite literally slowly follow the fight missle spamming with ease. That is why they always were and always will be skill less. Unless they make you keep an aircraft within the reticule for the missile entire flight I can't support calling A2AM skill based.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by snafus

The VTOL aspect of this game has made dog fighting so much more. You have to be creative when flying an ESF in this game and that ****** a lot of people who are used to sims. Treat this game flying like space helicopters under water and it makes much more sense.

I don't know about that. The most fun dogfighting you can have is in one of the Spitfire sims. ESF vs ESF dogfighting in this game is fun too but not by far as fun.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

I don't know about that. The most fun dogfighting you can have is in one of the Spitfire sims. ESF vs ESF dogfighting in this game is fun too but not by far as fun.

I find regular sims to be boring and to long winded. You have to approach PS2 as a more arcade style of game with a much larger demand on creative flying and twitch skills. And it comes down to preference to as there is nothing wrong with traditional sims they just don't always appeal to me for as long. The things you can do with an aircraft in this game at low alt is just amazing to me. I never got that kind of enjoyment from a sim.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by snafus

When A2AM are used with a team of ESF they become easy mode. By themselves most A2AM pilots are free kills as they usually lack good dog fighting skills. But when used in tandom with two other dog fighters the A2AM ESF is able to quite literally slowly follow the fight missle spamming with ease. That is why they always were and always will be skill less. Unless they make you keep an aircraft within the reticule for the missile entire flight I can't support calling A2AM skill based.

It takes as mush skill for 2 ESF working to gather to kill a single ESF using the A2AM or any of the main guns. It's not the weapon here that makes them superior it's that it's always more powerful to fly with a wing man then to fly solo.

I could compare your QQ over the A2AM with one infantry QQ'ing that he cant take on a trained NC squad all by him self because they are using rocket launchers.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

It takes as mush skill for 2 ESF working to gather to kill a single ESF using the A2AM or any of the main guns. It's not the weapon here that makes them superior it's that it's always more powerful to fly with a wing man then to fly solo.

I could compare your QQ over the A2AM with one infantry QQ'ing that he cant take on a trained NC squad all by him self because they are using rocket launchers.

Oh sure teamwork is always superior to the individual. But what I am getting at is A2AM allow bad pilots a too strong of a weapon that require little effort to use. Can't tell you how many times I have been beating those three man teams to only have one of them hide on the fringes of the fight spamming lock A2AM because he sucks at dog fighting. If that player had to at least follow at close range and keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule then it could be respected. Until then the use of A2AM will be the laughing stock of the flying aspect of this game. It is right there with stryker spammers on TR in my opinion.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by snafus

Oh sure teamwork is always superior to the individual. But what I am getting at is A2AM allow bad pilots a too strong of a weapon that require little effort to use. Can't tell you how many times I have been beating those three man teams to only have one of them hide on the fringes of the fight spamming lock A2AM because he sucks at dog fighting. If that player had to at least follow at close range and keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule then it could be respected. Until then the use of A2AM will be the laughing stock of the flying aspect of this game. It is right there with stryker spammers on TR in my opinion.

So when did you last dogfight in this game then? Back in august last year during beta? Because it damn sounds like it. The lock on range for the A2AM are allot shorter now then it used to be so they can no longer hide in the outskirts of the battle.

And yes I can see way they are using A2AM rather then the main gun. Because with A2AM you're avoiding dealing friendly fire to anyone. But I bet they would have killed you anyway. Because it's easier to kill some one with the main gun then A2AM. So if they killed you with A2AM they would have killed you with the main gun.

Stop be such a pussy over that you took on too mush and be a man about it.

[Sledgecrushr]

I love flying. And verrry slowly I am getting to be a better pilot. Still I wish they had some real joystick support in the game.

[Whiteagle]

Originally Posted by snafus

Oh sure teamwork is always superior to the individual. But what I am getting at is A2AM allow bad pilots a too strong of a weapon that require little effort to use. Can't tell you how many times I have been beating those three man teams to only have one of them hide on the fringes of the fight spamming lock A2AM because he sucks at dog fighting. If that player had to at least follow at close range and keep the enemy aircraft within the reticule then it could be respected. Until then the use of A2AM will be the laughing stock of the flying aspect of this game. It is right there with stryker spammers on TR in my opinion.

So coordination to make up for lack of individual skill shouldn't be rewarded in a game all about team work?

Originally Posted by Sunrock

So when did you last dogfight in this game then? Back in august last year during beta? Because it damn sounds like it. The lock on range for the A2AM are allot shorter now then it used to be so they can no longer hide in the outskirts of the battle.

And yes I can see way they are using A2AM rather then the main gun. Because with A2AM you're avoiding dealing friendly fire to anyone. But I bet they would have killed you anyway. Because it's easier to kill some one with the main gun then A2AM. So if they killed you with A2AM they would have killed you with the main gun.

Stop be such a pussy over that you took on too mush and be a man about it.

Indeed, roll up a Waterson VS, you'll see how little you get shot down by A2Am.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

So when did you last dogfight in this game then? Back in august last year during beta? Because it damn sounds like it. The lock on range for the A2AM are allot shorter now then it used to be so they can no longer hide in the outskirts of the battle.

And yes I can see way they are using A2AM rather then the main gun. Because with A2AM you're avoiding dealing friendly fire to anyone. But I bet they would have killed you anyway. Because it's easier to kill some one with the main gun then A2AM. So if they killed you with A2AM they would have killed you with the main gun.

Stop be such a pussy over that you took on too mush and be a man about it.

Dude all I do is fly in this dam game. And A2AM used to be far more effective that is not denied. But they are still to user friendly not forcing player skill to use effectively. It is a easy mode weapon provided for poor players to be more effective. And they do not prevent friendly fire they only reduce the chance. They still hit friendly aircraft much to often in my experience as I have been dinged by them to many times. The A2AM is simply the bad players crutch since it doesn't require you to stay on target any longer then a lock on que. You can call me a bitch but at least I earn my kills with a actual skill based weapon.

[Sunrock]

Originally Posted by snafus

Dude all I do is fly in this dam game. And A2AM used to be far more effective that is not denied. But they are still to user friendly not forcing player skill to use effectively. It is a easy mode weapon provided for poor players to be more effective. And they do not prevent friendly fire they only reduce the chance. They still hit friendly aircraft much to often in my experience as I have been dinged by them to many times. The A2AM is simply the bad players crutch since it doesn't require you to stay on target any longer then a lock on que. You can call me a bitch but at least I earn my kills with a actual skill based weapon.

But the time it takes to stay on your tale and lock on you can use A2A main gun and take out 70% of your ESF HP. While the A2AM only do 35%'ish. Now is it easier to keep you in the circle to get you locked down then it is to hit yuo with the main gun? If you are as skilled pilot as you say you are then it's not easier to lock you on as it is to shoot you down with the main gun.

All I see here is some one QQ'ing over being killed fairly and that is lame and pathetic.

[snafus]

Originally Posted by Sunrock

But the time it takes to stay on your tale and lock on you can use A2A main gun and take out 70% of your ESF HP. While the A2AM only do 35%'ish. Now is it easier to keep you in the circle to get you locked down then it is to hit yuo with the main gun? If you are as skilled pilot as you say you are then it's not easier to lock you on as it is to shoot you down with the main gun.

All I see here is some one QQ'ing over being killed fairly and that is lame and pathetic.

Difference is you actually have to aim with a nose gun which bad pilots primarily A2AM pilots can't do. Again it is a crutch for bad pilots and always will be at the rate the game is going. Anyone defending the use of A2AM for dog fighting is a bad pilot plain and simple. And to know a large portion of a server uses them makes me it even more hilarious to me.

[maradine]

Yes. Helios. All aspects. Further thoughts available in the other thread on the topic and in sig.