Zealot Maxes need rebalancing - Page 2

Dreamcast · 2013-05-24, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

I am ok with it, they die to a single rocket to the face or just on c4 brick from far, the only problem is hitting moving target, but I am already getting used to that.
When I am camping a spawn point with anchored mode I can kill Zoe max fast, but when it comes a shielded max, I can do anything, just die, he will get on my face, maybe circle me and when I am undeploying he will kill me, or just kill me face to face, he still got more, dps on melee range.
So, anchored kills Zoe, that kills shield that kills anchored, looks strange but functional.

Originally Posted by LoliLoveFart

Oh so the issue is the other person out manoeuvring the other. Any max can do that to a stationary max on any faction.
Good to know.

Dude they out maneuver infantry.....

Just saying is way too quick in strafing for a max.

Rolfski · 2013-05-24, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by PredatorFour

IMO it's fine as it is.

It's not fine as is because it's making other VS classes in confined spaces like biolabs borderline useless. Smart VS outfits will have entire squads make up with Zealot Maxes plus a few engies and LA's for support to dominate any biolab/CQB base this game is throwing at them. I'm already seeing this happening on Miller and Mattherson. And as resources are broken in this game atm, spawning them is not really an issue if you put a few certs into the cooldown timer. There's really no need any more for VS to play heavy assault, Zealot Maxes have almost made this class obsolete overnight, especially in CQB.
High sustained dps + mobility + engie repair support= win in this game.

KarrdeBRBU · 2013-05-24, 07:35 AM

Let's not start this firestorm here. Give it 2 weeks to cool off. If the ZOE is still a problem then we can have the discussion. I still think it's more a result of VS MAXes actually being fielded for anything other than AA, and there being a metric ton of them right now since playing AI MAX isn't god awful anymore.

Maarvy · 2013-05-24, 07:38 AM

What you mean now my VS max can compete with hacksaws and fracture maxes ...

My heart bleeds for you red and blue muppets ... it realy does .

Assist · 2013-05-24, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

It's not fine as is because it's making other VS classes in confined spaces like biolabs borderline useless. Smart VS outfits will have entire squads make up with Zealot Maxes plus a few engies and LA's for support to dominate any biolab/CQB base this game is throwing at them. I'm already seeing this happening on Miller and Mattherson. And as resources are broken in this game atm, spawning them is not really an issue if you put a few certs into the cooldown timer. There's really no need any more for VS to play heavy assault, Zealot Maxes have almost made this class obsolete overnight, especially in CQB.
High sustained dps + mobility + engie repair support= win in this game.

It's amazing to me how wrong people are about zoe. It's completely worthless to use in CQC. It's going to do nothing but get you killed quicker, it's only real advantage right now is outside combat and medium ranged. Even then, you people apparently have no clue how fast they die. Anyone claiming they make any infantry class obsolete is just plain wrong, a Heavy Assault will outlast a ZOE max every encounter. A BR1 TR w/ Carv and base shield will kill a ZOE max 1v1, if you don't believe me go ahead and try it. Ever hit a ZOE MAX with a rocket launcher? Currently any rocket launcher is a 2 shot.

It really is astonishing to me that people are complaining about this ability. The strafing comments blow my mind. Do people really have that bad of aim? This is worse than the drivel on the reddit and official forums about the "ADAD abusers". I mean come the fuck on, it's called strafing and it's been in every FPS game since the mid 90's!

You know what though, I hope they get rid of zoe and just give us jump jets like they should have, then you'd really see the whining about maneuverability. ZOE is a shit ability for good players, increasing your damage taken in hopes that the players you're playing against have shit aim is not a good trade off.

Shamrock · 2013-05-24, 08:35 AM

Fine, scrap ZoE, and give us jump jets back as our special ability, then you will see the true meaning of "outmaneuvering", complaining about strafe speed is just total :-

Canaris · 2013-05-24, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

It really is astonishing to me that people are complaining about this ability. The strafing comments blow my mind. Do people really have that bad of aim? This is worse than the drivel on the reddit and official forums about the "ADAD abusers". I mean come the fuck on, it's called strafing and it's been in every FPS game since the mid 90's!

before you take that tone with people you should learn the differnce between Strafing: A lateral movement in 1 direction to avoid counter attack fire

ADADing - is mashing the left and right buttons to confuse the servers hit detection in order not to strafe very far in either direction yet avoid fire in the same way by abusing the game mechanics.

Assist · 2013-05-24, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Canaris

ADADing - is mashing the left and right buttons to confuse the servers hit detection in order not to strafe very far in either direction yet avoid fire in the same way by abusing the game mechanics.

Give me ANY proof that ADAD is messing with hit detection or the hit box. I've killed more than my fair share of players and I've never had a problem(outside of that players lag) with hit detection boxes. It's completely fabricated, there is nothing wrong with the hit detection in Planetside 2.

ChipMHazard · 2013-05-24, 08:51 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EzkPj3liG8I
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ration.120615/

I've never seen it ingame myself and I have no idea if it's possible to do with the ZOE.
Atm. I do think that the movement increase and ability to switch it on and off instantly, or there abouts, does make the ZOE too effective overall. But that's just my impression atm. and I'm still not used to fighting against ZOEs, so take it with a grain of salt. We'll have a better picture after a week or so.
Then again I also regard Lockdown as being too effective with bursters and possibly fractures.

camycamera · 2013-05-24, 08:54 AM

over at briggs i have NEVER in my LIFE seen so much MAX spam from the VS.... all of them had the zealot, and every second infantry was a MAX, it was ridiculous!

some MAXes here, some MAXes there, MAXes everywhere! they're just getting the most out of the ability before SOE nerfs it :P

ChipMHazard · 2013-05-24, 08:58 AM

Well they are also just excited about getting something new for the MAX, so naturally we're going to be seeing a lot more MAX users atm. Should calm down again though. If not... Well, the devs do love their metric data.

Canaris · 2013-05-24, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EzkPj3liG8I
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ration.120615/

I've never seen it ingame myself and I have no idea if it's possible to do with the ZOE.
Atm. I do think that the movement increase and ability to switch it on and off instantly, or there abouts, does make the ZOE too effective overall. But that's just my impression atm. and I'm still not used to fighting against ZOEs, so take it with a grain of salt. We'll have a better picture after a week or so.
Then again I also regard Lockdown as being too effective with bursters and possibly fractures.

thanks for posting that up Chip, heck you don't even need a macro to do it, just quick fingers

Assist · 2013-05-24, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=EzkPj3liG8I
https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...ration.120615/

I've never seen it ingame myself and I have no idea if it's possible to do with the ZOE.
Atm. I do think that the movement increase and ability to switch it on and off instantly does make the ZOE too effective overall. But that's just my impression atm. and I'm still not used to fighting against ZOEs, so take it with a grain of salt.

What's glitched about the video in the thread? That's called strafing back and forth, there was no hit detection issue there at all. You could consistently see his center mass moving back and forth with no warping of any sort. There was nothing wrong with what video showed, apparently people just do not like strafing. I'd also like to point out that if that guy recording was shooting at that player, he wouldn't even have had to move his aim because he was on target 90% of that video without even moving. If that strafing player wanted to avoid being hit, he would have had to strafe farther, which makes his movement even more predictable.

The NiVX video makes me laugh, because that guy isn't even strafing. I don't know the term for it, but in Darkfall they called it squirreling. He was reloading, so he was sprinting while turning rapidly, which makes it impossible to guess which direction he's going to turn next. If you're not firing back strafing to avoid gun-fire is a horrible idea, you move too slow, the only reason to strafe is if you're firing back at the guy. If you want to avoid damage you're much better off "squirreling" than strafing. If you wish to complain about momentum go for it, but it's nothing to do with server lag, hit detection, or hit box location. There's a lot of issues with momentum in this game, like every vehicle, but there are 0 issues with hit detection and to adjust movement momentum to remove 'squirreling' tactics completely ruins games combat(See Darkfall: Unholy Wars compared to Darkfall1 combat discussions)

Sunrock · 2013-05-24, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by Assist

Give me ANY proof that ADAD is messing with hit detection or the hit box. I've killed more than my fair share of players and I've never had a problem(outside of that players lag) with hit detection boxes. It's completely fabricated, there is nothing wrong with the hit detection in Planetside 2.

You can't prove it without having access to very detailed server logs. But what people mean with, "Messing with hit detection or hit box" ADAD spaming, is that it creates a client server lag that makes the server unable to correctly tell where the player is. So when you say that you experienced players lag with hit detection boxes this is might be because they exploit the ADAD spaming.

Assist · 2013-05-24, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

You can't prove it without having access to very detailed server logs. But what people mean with, "Messing with hit detection or hit box" ADAD spaming, is that it creates a client server lag that makes the server unable to correctly tell where the player is. So when you say that you experienced players lag with hit detection boxes this is might be because they exploit the ADAD spaming.

Right, so like I said. Prove it, somehow. Give me a video proving it in a fight. Give me anything, other than posts on forums, that shows there's an issue with hit detection boxes that is somehow related to strafing rapidly. It's completely fabricated shit that people have latched on to because players always need an excuse.