News: New Esamir Bases - Page 2

ringring · 2013-05-25, 06:06 AM

I think this is a big improvement.

My one gripe is from looking at the stream where Kalpyer is moving thorugh the Amp Station (I think it was) at ground level as if he was a grunt - there seem to be so many different avenues that the whole thing looks like it would promote chaotic fighting. Literally the enemy can come from anywhere and when you come across an enemy it would be more by chance that by anything else.

(I still think Amp Stations are too big).

The other thing to comment on (and I still don't know the answer) is would there be any fighting from the walls themselves by defenders. There should be but I don't see that happening at present very much. Where is doesn't happen it's not because of aircraft spam and not so much because of tank spam.

Maybe because it's because walls are presently on Amp Stations and walls for defenders are too far away - so maybe (lots of maybes) this won't be an issue for the newer smaller bases but still would be for Amps.

(Theory is that if walls are not being used for fighting from there is something wrong design-wise).

bpostal · 2013-05-25, 06:15 AM

Excellent shit right here. Now to see how the flow is, that'll be the sticking point. Removing vehicle combat from the final push is a welcome addition (no matter what Sunrock says) in my mind...but if there's no logic to the fight then we'll still be stuck with NASCAR.

Emperor Newt · 2013-05-25, 06:24 AM

Trees? What evil magic is this?

But to put it in one sentence: I cant wait for this to go live. This (walls, shield domes, more cover) is my #1 bugbear right now.

Shamrock · 2013-05-25, 08:27 AM

Fantastic changes!!

Shogun · 2013-05-25, 08:31 AM

the bases look much better!

i will check testserver very often to see them as soon as possible.

by the way, do we have the observercam option on testserver? or is it dev only?

the only concern i have is with the domeshields.

i am afraid, they will do the opposite of what they are designed for!
lolpodder esf pilots will hover up there, move a millimeter to get directly under the shields to launch their rockets and go back over the shield to reload and break missile-locks. with the lockon time being 5 seconds, flak will be the only weapon that could be used against them, and waiting to actually get a hit with a burster from inside a shield will be too frustrating.

i am afraid the pilots will abuse the shields to hell and back. they will abuse them like spawnshields are abused now for camping. i know, nobody can shoot through domes, but the pilots can hoover from firemode to safety in a second.
so the shields will not protect infantry from airspam, they will enfore even more airspam and render almost every aa useless as a counter.

also, the domegenerators shouldn´t float. they need a pole or support structure. and don´t say they rest on the shield they emmit, because some of the shields don´t sit on anything either.

but the walls and stuff look really good! looks like we finally get actual bases instead of littered containers! i wouldn´t mind, if a small number of outposts stays as open as they are, to have some outposts with a different battleflow, but the majority should be fortified like in the internal build. i like the direction they are going now!

ChipMHazard · 2013-05-25, 08:49 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

i am afraid, they will do the opposite of what they are designed for!
lolpodder esf pilots will hover up there, move a millimeter to get directly under the shields to launch their rockets and go back over the shield to reload and break missile-locks. with the lockon time being 5 seconds, flak will be the only weapon that could be used against them, and waiting to actually get a hit with a burster from inside a shield will be too frustrating.

i am afraid the pilots will abuse the shields to hell and back. they will abuse them like spawnshields are abused now for camping. i know, nobody can shoot through domes, but the pilots can hoover from firemode to safety in a second.
so the shields will not protect infantry from airspam, they will enfore even more airspam and render almost every aa useless as a counter.

I share your concern on this. Could easily become just like when people wait for a vehicle to come through a vehicle shield; as in people just pointing their weapons where a vehicle will be coming through the shield and waiting.
The shield will prevent long range bombardment, that much is true. But it will also give pilots a quick way of escaping ground based AA.
If one side has total air domination it could even become as bad as it was back when ESFs and Liberators dominated the battlefield because AA was lackluster. Atm. ground based AA is often effective enough to scare away aircraft, often enough too effective.

Artimus · 2013-05-25, 09:09 AM

Personally I think those dome shields was a shitty attempt at stopping spawn camping. I have a feeling you will be seeing these on every base. This guy made it out to seem like he hates vehical play altogether.

"Its going to be on alot (of bases)" he says

"Infantry shouldent have to worry about vehicals." he says

I feel this is going to ruin the game, comined arms of vehicals and infantry is what makes this game so fun. The only way I will find the dome shields accepltable is if they can infact be disabled through a gen. or something of the likes.

MrMak · 2013-05-25, 09:33 AM

And here we go. One side says that the changes wil lsave the game the other the exact oposite. Why dont we see how it acualy works out in its final form instead of whining prematurely.

If people are realy so woried abuy aircraft poping in and out of the shield make them dual layered. Make the outer, much higher, layer stop only fire comign from inside and the inner layer only stop damage coming from outside. That way there is a zone where the aircrat can hget hit but cant shoot back without compromising the aircraft flying above the dome.

On the other hand that might not be necessary since those domes are so low that anything that comes down below it will be close enaugh to be nailed with dumbfire rockets. Especialy if its atempting to abuse it repeatadly.

Another mechanic that would help stop them from partialy peeking through is making the dome "push" them to whichever side most of the aircraft is on so a liberator would for instance have a problem hovering with jsut its gun sticking inside and ESFs would have to go all the way inside becosue they would get pushed back out if they try to hover or enter too slowly.

ringring · 2013-05-25, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Artimus

Personally I think those dome shields was a shitty attempt at stopping spawn camping. I have a feeling you will be seeing these on every base. This guy made it out to seem like he hates vehical play altogether.

"Its going to be on alot (of bases)" he says

"Infantry shouldent have to worry about vehicals." he says

I feel this is going to ruin the game, comined arms of vehicals and infantry is what makes this game so fun. The only way I will find the dome shields accepltable is if they can infact be disabled through a gen. or something of the likes.

I don't take that comment too seriously, I think he just didn't choose his words quite right and I think he meant that in the in-base phase of the battle infantry shouldn't have to worry about vehicles. Of course in infantry venture into vehicle domain they should worry.

Look that the changes that were don't because vehicles could camp spawns and the inside of bases so easily, I mean the decrease in splash damage from tanks and the additional AV weapons for infantry. A problems was addressed in the wrong way because the right solutions of changing base designs wasn't available easily.

IMHO battles should occur in phases and the phase outside bases should be dominated by vehicles, the phase inside bases should be wholly infantry only.

And this is coming from someone who has nearly 3000 prowler and lightning kills from 7200 kills overall and I do like tanks a lot.

Hamma · 2013-05-25, 10:28 AM

Marked post as news - interesting developments.

MGP · 2013-05-25, 10:50 AM

WTF? Shields? So much for "combined arms gameplay". Since we're almost there, let's go all the way and create Infantry-only servers, to make those CoD-kids happy.

Canaris · 2013-05-25, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by ChipMHazard

Originally Posted by Shogun

i am afraid, they will do the opposite of what they are designed for!
lolpodder esf pilots will hover up there, move a millimeter to get directly under the shields to launch their rockets and go back over the shield to reload and break missile-locks. with the lockon time being 5 seconds, flak will be the only weapon that could be used against them, and waiting to actually get a hit with a burster from inside a shield will be too frustrating.

i am afraid the pilots will abuse the shields to hell and back. they will abuse them like spawnshields are abused now for camping. i know, nobody can shoot through domes, but the pilots can hoover from firemode to safety in a second.
so the shields will not protect infantry from airspam, they will enfore even more airspam and render almost every aa useless as a counter.

I share your concern on this. Could easily become just like when people wait for a vehicle to come through a vehicle shield; as in people just pointing their weapons where a vehicle will be coming through the shield and waiting.
The shield will prevent long range bombardment, that much is true. But it will also give pilots a quick way of escaping ground based AA.
If one side has total air domination it could even become as bad as it was back when ESFs and Liberators dominated the battlefield because AA was lackluster. Atm. ground based AA is often effective enough to scare away aircraft, often enough too effective.

yeah first thing I noticed with that base and from what they said that air can still drop troops through the shield or just bob up and down through it, base definitely needs towers at the corner of the walls that rise through the shield for AA defence teams to work from.

ItZMuRdA · 2013-05-25, 11:28 AM

Absolutely love the dome shield idea. Will play to the small squad benefits we have been discussing as well as just make locations far more enjoyable to fight in (PS1-esque) where at a certain point and in certain situations people actually have to get out of their vehicles to continue the fight and be effective, rather than the current model of spamming spawn rooms with vehicle shells from super far away.

Hmr85 · 2013-05-25, 11:33 AM

Love it!! Finally these are the changes we have been waiting for. This should make for some amazing combat.

ItZMuRdA · 2013-05-25, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Sunrock

Infantry should not have to worry about vehicles?!?!?! What the hell, is this COD? What makes this game so fun to play is the mix of infantry and vehicles.

The dome shields over the bases have to go away. Bio Labs are where the infantry only fight should be. Don't make every fucking base into a Bio Lab.

At a point, they should not have to. In PS1 they didn't have to, and that wasn't COD. There was courtyards and outdoor fights that were all vehicle territory, but the indoors of bases (underground, etc.) were much larger and players HAD to get out of their vehicles to hack the CC, destroy the gen or spawn tubes, etc. It was a great setup for people who liked both infantry and vehicles as there were different areas for them to shine.

Although they weren't as popular, the battle islands and caverns were more infantry-focused as well. I'm sorry if you hate it, but a lot of people like myself who always run infantry absolutely love having this as an OPTION.