Think we need a Huey?

[Wahooo]

Yes to both ideas. 5 man harasser of the sky and an unarmed phantasm type transport.

[KarrdeBRBU]

I'd like to see this AND the phant. Or just replace the guns with a cloaking module and have it certable. This would need to be perma cloak, and make it 100% invis below a certain very slow speed.

[Mox]

The gal must be pimped out first. There are a lot of possibilities for the gal to fulfill these kind of roles.

[NewSith]

@OP Time for being constructive is now:

Tbh, I would rather have Liberator revisited for the functionality you offer. I stand with a firm belief that the Lib should obtain a role of an attack/transport helicopter (a-la Mi-24), while the bombing part should be done by ESFs. For that I always propose ESFs to be changed into two-man vehicles.

The original suggestion would be too hard to balance, and despite how devs look at Liberator and ESF changes, it would be very hard to make an air vehicle that is tougher than an ESF, but yet weaker than the Galaxy without making it a second Liberator.

Now why should we have 2 vehicles that have the same armor values (and size, mind you) while having different roles? I mean look at the Lib. Of all the vehicles out there the Lib is the least flexible (losing in that only to the Galaxy).

[Captain1nsaneo]

I love this because it point to something so very obvious yet was totally off my mental radar. The galaxy isn't getting much use at all as it doesn't have an effective role. Full gals are rare and uncommon due to a combination of poor agility and just how fast people die making full drops ineffective.

So we have 2 questions:
-What air transport would be effective?
-What can be done to make the galaxy effective?

The first one is what this thread is addressing with a phant and/or a sort of high speed and incredibly agile insertion aircraft. For my two cents, I love the phant for high risk operations in enemy territory, you just can't beat it. But it's slow, fat, and carries a particular breed with it. It's not used for normal operations and troop movement. That role was covered by mossies and reavers in PS1. In PS2 some sort of agile high speed aircraft. The Orca transport and GDI drop ship both come to mind as rough bases designs, but the addition of some ball turret under the nose controlled by another player kind of like the Mi-35М would be awesome. Don't like the idea of a door gunner though, reason for the dislike is that it shows some of the vehicle internals and if we don't have entering/exit animations then removing ideas of physical space actually free up the design.

So, question two. First though, give galaxies more abilities to play with. Transform them from drop ships into flying fortresses. I don't mean strap them with more turrets or something, I mean give them more or expanded roles. Increase it's maximum capacity from 12 to 30. Make them similar to larger transport aircraft (modern c-17's can carry ~100 paratroopers + gear). I'd also allow for them to trade out their ability to carry troops for the ability to drop bombs. This creates a new and effective role for them and since the pilot would not be the one dropping the bombs (which has a 30 sec reload time at least, not to mention ammo/altitude restriction) it's not something that would be spammed or remove the lib's air support role.

Either way, this is a good point to bring up and needs to be addressed.

[Shogun]

what, if the galaxys would get s new cert option to compensate the big size?

i am thinking of a scoopup beam that works just like the elevators.

turning it on will switch off all weapons and keep the galaxy hovering on the spot.

this way, the galaxy can scoop up soldiers without having to land inbetween the clegged up courtyards. they could just hover over a narrow alley and send down the scoopup beam.

[bpostal]

Originally Posted by Captain1nsaneo

I love this because it point to something so very obvious yet was totally off my mental radar. The galaxy isn't getting much use at all as it doesn't have an effective role. Full gals are rare and uncommon due to a combination of poor agility and just how fast people die making full drops ineffective.

So we have 2 questions:
-What air transport would be effective?
-What can be done to make the galaxy effective?

The first one is what this thread is addressing with a phant and/or a sort of high speed and incredibly agile insertion aircraft. For my two cents, I love the phant for high risk operations in enemy territory, you just can't beat it. But it's slow, fat, and carries a particular breed with it. It's not used for normal operations and troop movement. That role was covered by mossies and reavers in PS1. In PS2 some sort of agile high speed aircraft. The Orca transport and GDI drop ship both come to mind as rough bases designs, but the addition of some ball turret under the nose controlled by another player kind of like the Mi-35М would be awesome. Don't like the idea of a door gunner though, reason for the dislike is that it shows some of the vehicle internals and if we don't have entering/exit animations then removing ideas of physical space actually free up the design.

So, question two. First though, give galaxies more abilities to play with. Transform them from drop ships into flying fortresses. I don't mean strap them with more turrets or something, I mean give them more or expanded roles. Increase it's maximum capacity from 12 to 30. Make them similar to larger transport aircraft (modern c-17's can carry ~100 paratroopers + gear). I'd also allow for them to trade out their ability to carry troops for the ability to drop bombs. This creates a new and effective role for them and since the pilot would not be the one dropping the bombs (which has a 30 sec reload time at least, not to mention ammo/altitude restriction) it's not something that would be spammed or remove the lib's air support role.

Either way, this is a good point to bring up and needs to be addressed.

While you bring up excellent points and concerns, most of which I share, my main point of contention is that the footprint of the Gal is just too big for small, covert drops. Simply put, the damned thing is too big. You're going to get recognized and if not targeted as a priority it's just too difficult to get into and out of contested areas unnoticed.

I do, however, especially like the idea of adding more seats to the Gal. It's something I remember hearing about waaaay back in the GDC era, where they (most likely Higby but I don't want to trust my memory that much atm) were suggesting fitting a whole platoon of infantry in a single Gal.

Two separate, but similar topics. The need for a airborne troop transport for smaller units and the issue of the under-utilization of the Galaxy.

TLDR: Loadstars.

[Chewy]

I would PAY for a real helicopter in PS2. Mimic controls from ARMA II or maybe BF3 and Id become a dedicated flyer by the end of the day.

[Figment]

The Galaxy would be useful if the game had Galaxy objectives.

A Huey or Phantasm for that matter would not have objectives either.

So what you're left with is just more dakkadakkadakka, of which we have enough aerial stuff, tbh.

[Shogun]

i would say revamp the support xp system and make it like it was in ps1!

including support xp from hotdropped players!
this would at least animate some more people to actually organise hotdrops or do the warpgate taxy duty.

and of course we need "vnp" combined with a big icon over the gal that casts vnp.
maybe even take it a step further and let the pilot set a target destination that is then displayed over or on the gal, like on a regular bus.

[Rbstr]

A Harraser for the skies sounds like tons of fun. Let it spawn at all air-pads.
4/5 people total?
BF-style forward mounted autocannon for the gunner with some kind of fixed-forward weapon thingy for the pilot?
2-MAX capacity.
Maybe don't give it quite the same hot-drop capability as the gal? Make it get a bit closer?

[Shogun]

Originally Posted by Rbstr

Maybe don't give it quite the same hot-drop capability as the gal? Make it get a bit closer?

it would need a warning icon for both, the passengers and the pilot. like the bombing icon the lib had in ps1, that showed if you could drop bombs or if the plane is tilted too much.

only this time it would show jump safety and would be triggered by hight over actual floor.

[OctavianAXFive]

Bah NS based vehicles and weapons are usually really boring. Lucky I'm here to spout my wonderful faction specific ideas.

TR: R.A.D.E.R. Aircraft

Rapid Attack Deployment Evacuation and Reconnaissance

Aesthetic: Somewhere between a Mosquito and a Blackhawk

Crew: 6
Pilot: 1
Gunner: 2
Passenger: 3

Traits:
Speed: Very high
Agility: Very high
Armor: Low
Special Feature: Afterburner

Weapon placement: Two weapons, one on the port, and one on the starboard side, up close to the cockpit: Standard array of NS weapons available.

Special Weapons: Side mounted mini-guns that provide a high rate of fire and good damage versus infantry with only some light armor penetration.

Summary: The RADER’s fast, almost ESF like speed and agility make it ideal for penetrating deep into enemy territory without the need for a fighter escort. It relies heavily on its mobility to avoid enemy fire, using its standard after burners to make tricky maneuvers and take off rapidly to avoid enemy fire while grounded. The RADER can be used as a gunship in a pinch but due to its low armor it is extremely vulnerable while attempting to provide fire support from the side facing chain guns. A better use of the guns is providing cover while the pilot finds a place to land when attempting to deploy or extract friendlies.

VS: Scimitar

Aesthetic: Like a flying magrider thing, got a rough image in my head but I can’t draw so that image will have to do.

Crew: 6
Pilot: 1
Gunner: 2
Passenger: 3

Traits:
Speed: High
Agility: Medium
Armor: Medium
Special Feature: Gravity Lift

Weapon Placement: One top and one bottom mounted gun: Standard array of NS weapons available.

Special Weapons:
Bottom: Light plasma launcher with a small clip and low rate of fire. Has some splash damage and is affective against infantry. Direct hits do light-medium damage to vehicles.

Top: A modified Saron Laser cannon for use on the Scimitar.

Summary: The Scimitar is the workhorse of the Vanu air force. Its sturdy design and good speed and maneuverability mean that it can deliver troops safely into hostile environments. The notable “drawback” to the Scimitar is its size. Bigger than either the TR or NC dropships, the Scimitar does not have particularly good speed nor does it have heavy armoring. Instead, the Scimitar can deploy gravity lifts to repel or extract friendlies. Additionally, once the gravity lift is deployed, the pilot may exit the aircraft and it will remain hovering with the gravity lifts deployed. A gunner can then remain in the aircraft to provide fire support if desired.

Special Notes: The gravity lift is deployable at a range of altitudes, with the max altitude being increasable with certs. So in the warpgate if a platoon is loading into a ton of Scimitars, they can deploy the gravity lifts at varying altitudes to avoid running into each other while troops load up.

NC: Ravager

Aesthetic: Like a Mil Mi-24 except with future NC looking VTOL capabilities.

Crew: 6
Pilot: 1
Gunner: 1
Passenger: 4

Traits:
Speed: Medium
Agility: Low
Armor: High
Special Feature: High Density Plating (immune to small arms fire)

Weapon Placement:
Forward facing side heavy weapons (pilot) (NS weapons that damage vehicles)
Underbelly remote ball turret (gunner) (Standard Array of NS weapons)

Special Weapons:
Breaker Rocket pods (pilot)
M30 AH Mustang (gunner)

Summary:
The NC didn’t quite grasp the concept of infantry transport and instead opted for a gunship that also happens to have space for infantry. The Ravager is a slow beast that can give as much as it can take. The Ravager is equipped to handle most infantry threats and can safely deliver troops through a flak filled sky. Despite the Ravager’s impressive arsenal, it is simply no match for Scythes and Mosquitos and has little in the way of protection from airborne threats. Nevertheless, left un harassed the Ravager is a fierce infantry support aircraft and is ideal for small squads heading into enemy territory that may need some heavy weapons support over the course of their mission. The Ravager is flown more like a conventional helicopter, preferring to float and requiring the pilot to tilt the entire aircraft in the direction he or she wishes to go.

[Baneblade]

Size and stats of the Lib. Nose and Tail gunner seats (fully enclosed) and 4 'rumble' passenger seats. 2 per side. No MAX carry at all.

Acts as a squad beacon when landed regardless of owner.

[RSphil]

a small transport like the slick Huey has been mentioned in the past. i have also asked about this and we may see it in the future but will be a while yet id say.