OSX release plausible? - Page 2

MrVulcan · 2003-04-16, 01:04 PM

there is a non-unix based osx, when was the last time you put the cd in and installed it? It askes, do you want to install the standard base, or unix base.

Try installing it, it does.

OSX was designed 1st for non unix based, then before release they wrote a converter so it could un on unix, their 1st release of the converter was vrey very poor, it got better after 1.0-1.1 but it still is not very efficient. Before you say things like there is no non unix version, try things, call up some of the mac programers, talk to them, etc, find things out, dont just assume things....

Go find a real unix system and see how it runs, there is not comparison from osx to true unix.

Chanfan · 2003-04-16, 01:58 PM

I think you are a bit confused there, MrVulcan.

AFAIK, there is no non-UNIX version of OS-X. There was, however, the option to install OS9 in addition to work in compatibility mode. OS X would emulate an environment in which the OS 9 would boot up, allowing non-carbonized (non-OS X) programs to run. This may be what you are thinking of - it's OS X running OS 9, and it is a bit confusing.

They did remove the ability to do this in later versions (Jaguar?), I belive.

Yes, the big problem with Macs for these type of games is the return on investment - but a good number of games do get ported, normally only after they prove their success elsewhere.

Yes, the original release of OS X had problems, of course - it was a 1.0 version of a total system rewrite. It is reported to be much better now.

Yes, Macs are very proprietary - which is a two-edged sword. It means you don't have much in the way of choices for expansion / update equipment, which does bite. But, it also means the hardware tends to be more compatible and be more thoroughly tested, since the combinations are limited and standards can be enforced. That's the good flip side of the coin.

As you can probably tell, I like Macs. I've been using them since thier introduction (and Apple ][ comptuers before that). But I've also been using PCs for about as long. It's really a question of what you want to do, and what is the best tool for the job.

There are some programs that I like better on the Mac - desk top publishing, image editing, etc. I still haven't found a better news reader than my old Mac one. And if a total computer newbie - or anyone who wanted their computer life made easier - wanted to do word processing and read Email, I'd suggest a Mac.

That being said, I do only have a Wintel machine at home. Why? It's the right tool for what I want to do - which is play games in addition to other basic tasks. Windows is the premier game platform for comptuers, hands down. It's the right tool for me. If I had more money, I'd proably have a Mac as well.

UNIX certainly has many strong points - I don't use it much merely because I don't know it well.

I like to think I have a reasionable view on platforms, but I know they can pretty much be like religous wars - folks will tout their platform of choice as the "one true platform", and make uninformed slams on all others.

But anyway, now that I've sidetracked - a Mac version might show up if Planetside is sucessful, but I'd expect it to be a while, if ever. The best bet to play PS would indeed be to get a PC.

MrVulcan · 2003-04-16, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Chanfan
...................

Ok, perhaps that is what it was, I know that I put the OSX1.0 disk in, and it had unix and non-unix options (still have that disk somewhere) and that when I called a programer(no, not tech support :P ) friend of mine that worked there to ask about the problems I was having he told me that the OS-x was 1st devoloped w/o unix in mind (at start of code), then they had to write a converter for unix and from what I saw, they never got the data flow very efficient. That is what I know, but it could be that it was a more OS9 base, and just looked like OSX, and came from the OSX install disk, dont know, I do know that the non-unix option ran much much better than the unix install option.

I grew up with unix, it is a very very stable system, almost impossible to have problems with, the only reason my main system is not unix is due to games, and thus I run dos based windows. I dont like macs or PCs to be honist, they are not very powerful, very unstable, and have far too many restrictions (esp macs). Also, as a programer, it is much easier to write for PCs and Unix systems, than macs, macs are very hard to write for since you can not call defualt scripts (dont exist) and htus have to write all of your base code and that is many many hours of extra work.

If you learn to use unix, it is by far better than any of the other options, but until it can run the games as well as windows, ill have to stick with my PC(game system).

phadE · 2003-04-16, 03:18 PM

what version of unix do you like the best? Solaris, HpUX or one of the bsd versions? I myself mostly use a dual boot xp/debian setup.

Airlift · 2003-04-16, 03:35 PM

Code:

if (UNIX_PLATFORM == 'hardware')
{
    echo('WTF World did I just end up on, and how do I get home?');
}
else
{
    echo('ERROR: Operating Systems run on actual hardware, not other OS "Platforms"!');
}
echo "Don't forget: OSX has always been UNIX because Apple bought NeXT, which was modified BSD.";
echo "BeOS was better and should have been the base for OSX. Fuck off, Steve Jobs.";

MrVulcan · 2003-04-16, 03:38 PM

I used to use the old full version of unix from AT&T, forgot the name...

Though unix (solaris, etc) is better, (stay away from SunOS though)
I think that the best way to go right now for most people (ease of use, etc) is to get Red Hat (unix-light/linux) I know, but still works very well). I have used red hat and it works very well, sure you dont have all of the options of Solaris, etc, but it is easier to use. I have also been told good things about SuSe, but I have not used it so I can not say how good it is.

I would use a dual boot, but I have not bothered to set one up, I jsut use XP right now, plan on building a pure unix system... *soon*

MrVulcan · 2003-04-16, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by Airlift

Code:

if (UNIX_PLATFORM == 'hardware') { echo('WTF World did I just end up on, and how do I get home?'); } else { echo('ERROR: Operating Systems run on actual hardware, not other OS "Platforms"!'); } echo "Don't forget: OSX has always been UNIX because Apple bought NeXT, which was modified BSD."; echo "BeOS was better and should have been the base for OSX. Fuck off, Steve Jobs.";

this is a codemonkey responce: (ok, ok I jsut wrote this off the top of my head, so it doesnt do that much cool stuff.. but hay

)

--------------------------------------

#include <iostream.h>

float isRuler (float&, float&, float&);

void main ()
{
float globalx, temp, unix;
bool condition = false;
float reality = reality + unix;
char use;

float hurt;
float hate;
unix = 0;

cout<< "What OS are you using?" <<endl;

globalx = 0;
temp = globalx;

cout<<"Are you running unix (y/n)?"<<endl;
cin>>use;

if (use == 'y')
{
cout<<"No, your not... but....";
hurt = 1;
hate = 1;
}
else
{

hurt = 0;
hate = 0;
}

if (hurt == 0 && hate == 0)
{
unix ++;
}

cout<<"unix is the only true way, you must use unix.... else .... you will be destroied..." <<endl;
double dead = 0;

bool world;

if (hate == 0)
{
world = true;
}

if (world == true)
{
cout<< "So your computer does not need to be." <<endl;
cout<< "unix wishes it so." <<endl;
}

float denial;
float truth;

unix = isRuler(unix, denial, truth);

char what_do_you_use;

cout<< "What OS will you use??" <<endl;
cin >> what_do_you_use;

while (hate<1)
{
cout<< "What do you think you are doing not using unix???";
}

}

float isRuler (float&, float&, float&)
{
char hate;
cout<< "hate... ";
cin >> hate;
cout<< "Even if you change now, it is too late, you are evil, and your data must be purged." <<endl;
int *unix1;
int *unix2 = unix1;

char unix[10];

/*cout<<"unix..."<<endl; /*nothuman*/
/*cin >>unix[10];*/

char denial;
int null = 0;
cout<<"denial...";
cin >> denial;
cout<< " "<<endl;
cout<<"It's better to just use unix." <<endl;
cout<<"I think it's easier than being a mac user or Windows user."<<endl;
cout<< "You don't need to do anything. You should only be and watch." <<endl;
cout<< "Nobody looks down on unix. Nobody hates unix. Nobody that knows unix anyway..." <<endl;
float otherhate; /*--*/
cout<< "Use unix, and nothing else!" <<endl;
char rage;
cout<<"rage...." ;
cin>>rage ;
cout<<" " <<endl;

return 0;
}

----------------------------------

Gotta love the hate = 0 loop if you say you dont use unix

Chanfan · 2003-04-16, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Airlift

Code:

echo "Don't forget: OSX has always been UNIX because Apple bought NeXT, which was modified BSD."; echo "BeOS was better and should have been the base for OSX. Fuck off, Steve Jobs.";

I do admit, even though I never laid eyes on one in the flesh, you had to love the BeBox for having a "geek port".

And yes, while I have a desire to learn UNIX, I haven't because I haven't run into a big need to put up my own server that I needed to be ultra-stable. I do appreciate bits of it that have leaked into other utilities and such that I use (such as grep with regular expression).

<sigh> computer holy wars�

joshts0 · 2003-04-16, 04:37 PM

For Linux, the distro of choice is definetly Slackware, hands down.

It is the -least- bloated (relative) of all the major distrobutions (RH, SuSE, Debain, others..)

FreeBSD all the way, though..

So now for my newbie self to contribute to the thread..
I don't think they will, but if they did, I think it would be more
effective for them to port it to some Unix-type OS (i.e. Linux),
AND THEN, from their, it shouldn't be -too- (relative) much
work compared to porting from Windows to Unix... Linux to OS-X
shouldn't be as big of a pain... That way, with the least work,
they knock out two birds with one stone.

I'm sure many people would love to see a Unix version of PS..
Hell, I could run Planetside, while looking up stuff about it.....
... or doing whatever hell else I wanted, for it is the multitasking
operating system...

Well, that brings up a valid point that I just realized. They probably
wouldn't do that because by nature, being Unix, you have too much
control over the system, opening the door for assfucks who like to
cheat... There is a reason that you can't alt tab (excluding eqwin or
whatever its called) in EQ.. they don't want you to be able to do
anything else while playing their games.. Unix, would allow you, in
one way or another to do this. I don't think they would have it
shutdown all ports but theres to disallow telnet, sshd... or prevent
you from switching from an X server to a console...
OS-X being BSD... one way or another, you could control whats
going on...

That being said, now that I have had a conversation with myself.. I don't think they will ever release it on OS-X...

Also, Unix/Windows/Mac all have their purpose..

Unix -- servers, people who want to be in complete control of their
system.. "power users" ... smart people (heh) ... I myself get paid to
work on Unix at my job.. and I'm 17... Also, businesses that want to
create their own interface for their computers. Before I worked at a
real job, I have worked at Papa Johns, their computers were running a
crap version of some unix operating system. (Blockbuster uses some
DOS application..)

Windows -- Games, average home user, most other people, other
people that I didn't list..

Mac -- Any type of desktop publishing, image editing, ... stuff of that
nature.. Mac wins, hands down, period, no questions asked.

SGI :: drool :: (Don't they run Solaris? ... SunOS? .. or is it proprietary..
I don't really know..) -- If ya wanna do more then the Mac can
handle and your name is Bill Gates... or the NFL .. this is the way to
go.. (you know that little yellow line? or the trail on the hockey puck at
an nhl game? these computers do that..)

I don't really know about sound editing... Mac? ... ??? Don't know..
Don't really care though..

Anyways.. back on track.. I WANT MY PLANETSIDE CD DAMMIT! I
got one from the Gamespot contest.. HURRY!!! I CANT WAIT!! :: CRY ::

WickedDeus · 2003-04-16, 04:41 PM

I'm sorry but I've used BeOS in person and BeOS beats all!

MrVulcan · 2003-04-16, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by joshts0
For Linux, the distro of choice is definetly Slackware, hands down.

It is the -least- bloated (relative) of all the major distrobutions (RH, SuSE, Debain, others..)

FreeBSD all the way, though..

So now for my newbie self to contribute to the thread..
I don't think they will, but if they did, I think it would be more
effective for them to port it to some Unix-type OS (i.e. Linux),
AND THEN, from their, it shouldn't be -too- (relative) much
work compared to porting from Windows to Unix... Linux to OS-X
shouldn't be as big of a pain... That way, with the least work,
they knock out two birds with one stone.

I'm sure many people would love to see a Unix version of PS..
Hell, I could run Planetside, while looking up stuff about it.....
... or doing whatever hell else I wanted, for it is the multitasking
operating system...

Well, that brings up a valid point that I just realized. They probably
wouldn't do that because by nature, being Unix, you have too much
control over the system, opening the door for assfucks who like to
cheat... There is a reason that you can't alt tab (excluding eqwin or
whatever its called) in EQ.. they don't want you to be able to do
anything else while playing their games.. Unix, would allow you, in
one way or another to do this. I don't think they would have it
shutdown all ports but theres to disallow telnet, sshd... or prevent
you from switching from an X server to a console...
OS-X being BSD... one way or another, you could control whats
going on...

That being said, now that I have had a conversation with myself.. I don't think they will ever release it on OS-X...

Also, Unix/Windows/Mac all have their purpose..

Unix -- servers, people who want to be in complete control of their system.. "power users" ... smart people (heh) ... I myself get paid to work on Unix at my job.. and I'm 17...
Also, businesses that want to create their own interface for their computers. Before I worked at a real job, I have worked at Papa Johns, their computers were running a crap version of some unix operating system. (Blockbuster uses some DOS application..)

Windows -- Games, average home user, most other people, other people that I didn't list..

Mac -- Any type of desktop publishing, image editing, ... stuff of that nature.. Mac wins, hands down, period, no questions asked.

SGI :: drool :: (Don't they run Solaris? ... SunOS? .. or is it proprietary.. i don't really know..) -- If ya wanna do more then the Mac can handle and your name is Bill Gates... or the NFL .. this is the way to go.. (you know that little yellow line? or the trail on the hockey puck at an nhl game? these computers do that..)

I don't really know about sound editing... Mac? ... ??? Don't know.. Don't really care though..

Anyways.. back on track.. I WANT MY PLANETSIDE CD DAMMIT! I got one from the Gamespot contest.. HURRY!!! I CANT WAIT!! :: CRY ::

I think that it all boils down to ease of use vs ability of OS

Such as:
Like you said "Slackware" is less bloated, thus it has less features, that means that it will be cleaner to use on some issues, but It cant do what RH can

I think that if you are going to learn how to use it, you might as well just take the extra step and learn how to use it and its cool stuff that RH can do

And I have used FreBSD once, so I am not too familier with it, but from what I saw, I still think that ReadHat is able to do out proform it, but I can not coment on it much... Then again, full blown unix can do much more, but hay

Unix= everything but games
PC = games... games.... ya... games....
Mac = people who cant use other options due to lack of want/need/etc of knowing how to work other types of systems, and thus take the ease of use, but lack of abilities option. (it is the most base user friendly, no doubt)

just my 200,000,000 cents

and yes,much more important is getting the PS beta

Ok, im done with this issue... not going to respond to this anymore....

joshts0 · 2003-04-16, 05:23 PM

I dont really like redhat. I hate the RHN crap too. I understand it as a
business model, but dislike it as a unix user. Just like I hate
Microsofts software (excluding games)... but Bill Gates is a freaking
genious and deserves all of his money. He is a GREAT business
man. He stole ideas; he uses a monopoly to control .. everything,
but damn, he is good at it. I disagree completely, but if I was him, I
would have done the same thing. Although, at this point, I would
probably release the company to the "people" and have it become
open source... Its not like he needs anymore money. Give a chance
for others to make a fortune like he did...

Yeah.. RedHat.. I disagree when you say it can do more. IMHO, all
Linux distributions can do the same, just some take more work
because AND ONLY because, just as with Windows, things are
created for the most popular operating system. It makes sense for
a business, or someone, to create it for the most popular OS, because
more people will use the software.... I disagree with you saying that it
has more "features." Because, it does not; it has more software
bundled with it that can do more things that you deem "features."

You could always go download whatever program is allowing
this "feature" on whatever distribution....

Thats my view on it..
I like FreeBSD though..
I kind of view RH the Microsoft of the Linux world.. accept a
lot more toned down, and a lot better, but too .... greedy?
Well, they are a company, and they do what is best for them,
for them, I agree, for the open-source world, I disagree.

Although, they offer "support" (paid services for companies) that
I do agree with, this will definitly help Linux become the
OS of choice in large scale businesses. A large company
is what is needed to offer support on a large scale basis. However,
I disagree with how they make you pay for the RHN to download
some updates, and stuff... I COMPLETEY AND AK!@(#*$(@(!
DISAGREE WITH THAT. That goes against what Linux and
the GNU license stands for, imho.

We have one RH server here at my work.. and its a bitch to
get upgrades for because of their shitty ass up2date utility that
only works for people that haven't paid in off-peak hours.. well,
when there isn't a large load on their systems. Linux is free.
Linux is supposed to be free. Linux is supposed to be free.
Linux is supposed to be free. Linux is supposed to be free.
Linux is supposed to be free. Linux is supposed to be free.
Linux is supposed to be free. Linux is supposed to be free.

Arg! ok. My view on RH. To sum it all up, as a business,
great practice. They are using their power to ... get more power
and more money. That is what businesses do. As a consumer,
BS BSS BS BS BS BS !!!!!!

edit: and I mostly agree with your Unix/Win/Mac views..

Guru · 2003-04-19, 02:53 PM

first off, the planetside developers say that they'd MAKE A PLANETSIDE for mac if asked. It actually wouldn't be too much of a hastle re-coding everything. Also, its still a really good possibility since developers consider crossing platforms in the last stages of development, usually after the initial beta test (which just happened about a week ago). Anyway, not porting it to mac would be a mistake, since many people already use macs for nongaming things.

secondly, anyone who'd rather use a pc than a mac is just a stupid stuck up nerd who thinks he's cool just because he knows programming languages. Believe me, I have a custom-built p4 3.06GHz w/ a radeon 9700 and 1.5GB RAM, as well as a 120GB HD. Don't get me wrong, its not bad. But my 1GHz iMac and dual 1.25GHz G4 kick its a**, burn it, piss on its ashes, and try to burn it again when it comes to speed, performance, graphics, sound, ease of use, gaming (i have virtual pc running xp for games only), and style. *** pc fanatics...

WickedDeus · 2003-04-19, 03:09 PM

Oh, please....all the test shows that almost any 2GHz PC will burn a dual GHz G4 in every test and a 3GHz PIV burns it.

Guru · 2003-04-19, 04:35 PM

You say that the tests say...
Have you actually tried testing it?
Didn't think so. I have tho.

Just so you know, ALL of those tests are curved. I've built 3 wintel computers over the past year, using the best parts i could find for under $2500. Believe me, the tests are curved so much it's disgusting. For example, in graphics applications performance, they put the macs at the highest graphic quality possible, and put the p4 at the olowest. Of course the p4 is gonna run faster then. Anyone who actually believes those tests is stupid.

So don't give me this "the tests say" crap.