I hate to rain on the parade--Outfit competitions... - Page 2

Navaron · 2003-05-16, 12:55 PM

It's probably done based on outfit size, or you can enter so many people to represent your faction. I'm sure it's "offworld".

Franchize · 2003-05-16, 12:59 PM

EvilPig,

Outfit competition will not create TK'ers, they are already out there. Accept the fact that some people are plain a$$holes, and there is nothing you, or I or the developers can do about it. The simple fact is that there are people out there, who can only have fun at the expense of others. Get used to it, especially in an online game community (reference: EQ). The thing that will make or break any online game is that the ratio of respectful, mature players who just want to have fun, outnumbers these idiots.

My point is, that is why the grief system is in place. If you continuously kill your own teammates, you get locked down. If this ruins their experience and they quit, so be it. Good riddance, I say. I don't think that there enough of these boneheads to impact the development of the game (at least I hope not), and if there are, I will most likely not play the game long.

EVILPIG · 2003-05-16, 01:21 PM

I keep seeing you guys asking "why would peolple TK?". BECAUSE THEY ARE MORONS AND THERE ARE MORONS in the game. There always is. Fine, don't believe it is a possibility and a current truth. Time will tell and then I'll bump this post with "I told you so".

The greif system WILL need to change, or freindly fire will need to be eliminated.

Spinnaker · 2003-05-16, 01:50 PM

playin americas amry i have actually been at the mercy of the greif system in that game some times and it works pretty well. it all works on honor, u gain honor after getting objectives and killing guys, liek 10 poijnts for enemy 50 for obj and extra fr certian feats, but if u shoot a guy u get -120 POINTS THE FIRST SHOT and they stack up 40 evry other, kill'm and u get a nice -200 in addition to ur -'s and if u kill too many ppl u go to jail and a -350 points, and when it's 1000 points to gu up and u screw up bad enough to go to jail u end up loosing honor, and belive me when u start up a new accoutn u start at 10 but there are ppl with honor 3. so why not make the greif system like that? where a few offencees u lose xp, then if u get pretty bad u loose certs, but if ur a just a complete jerk u loose rank and ur charecter is swiped, this is kinda harsh but look at it in the army, 1 wrong move and ur freind has 4 shots in his back, so dont bitch that it would be too harsh, raido for ppl's positions or sumtin, but hat is my idea. oh and uh coo lida on a league i can't wait to see that

LesserShade · 2003-05-16, 01:55 PM

I can't say that I know how the Outfit competitions will be implemented, but I just assumed it would be something offworld. If they can pull it off I think it could be a great idea. FPS and clan competion go hand in hand.

Big Bro · 2003-05-16, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by EVILPIG
I keep seeing you guys asking "why would peolple TK?". BECAUSE THEY ARE MORONS AND THERE ARE MORONS in the game. There always is. Fine, don't believe it is a possibility and a current truth. Time will tell and then I'll bump this post with "I told you so".

The greif system WILL need to change, or freindly fire will need to be eliminated.

No offense, Evil, but I don't see how people being morons is pertinent to the topic "I hate to rain on the parade--Outfit competitions... ". Outfit competitions are a fine idea (depending on how they implement it), regardless of how much of a moron many of they players are.

I don't think people are refuting that there are TK'ers, I think they are refuting that Outfit competitions will somehow promote this behavior.

EVILPIG · 2003-05-16, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by =NCG=Big Bro
No offense, Evil, but I don't see how people being morons is pertinent to the topic "I hate to rain on the parade--Outfit competitions... ".

How could you if you take that one post out of this thread's context as a whole.

Planetside is the best thing ever (IMHO). Outfit competitions are a cool idea, but will they benfit the game? I think not. We have already seen "MORON" TK'ers who victumize peolple simply for being in a particular outfit. The concept of Outfit Competitions breeds the sentiment that we are against each other. This will lead to more TK'ing. I am not speaking of solo TK'ers. I am speaking of outfits who order their men to TK certain invdividuals or other outfits on sight. This is completely counterproductive to what any of the Factions are trying to accomplish. The greif system is not adequate to handle this. I am OL of the 666th. We currently have about 430 members. If I say, "All 666 kill Joe-Blow on sight', Joe-blow is gonna die over and over and over again and we will not even flinch at the greif cause it will be dispersed around the outfit. We have already seen it with another outfit who believes that we are competing and not working together. They ordered their men to TK ours. We feel this is lame and do not TK theirs. They refuse an alliance. Now PS is considering creating the perception that we are enemies to our freinds as well? What will this lead to. You can sit there and say "It won"t happen" all day and night, but open your eyes and your mind. Someone will do it, and others will be more likely to do the same if we create this "competitive" environment between groups that should be fighting the enemy together.

As I said, time will tell. But mark my words, with a greif overhaul this is the future of PS.

***switches dead-horse beater to "off"***

-PIG-OUT

Big Bro · 2003-05-16, 03:32 PM

I didn't take your post out of context, and you still haven't convinced me of what you are saying.

It boils down to this. You say that Outfit competitions will promote Outfit TKs. I say I don't believe that will be true.

The concept of Outfit Competitions breeds the sentiment that we are against each other.

Of course the competitions will be seperate from the "regular" game, otherwise it would disrupt the flow of the game. The problem is that it promotes animosity between outfits that are supposed to be on the same side.

As you've pointed out before, there are MORONS that play all games. When these morons tell their teammates to kill other people from other outfits in the same empire, that's a terrible thing. I don't agree with TKing in general, and I don't see how any aspect of the game mechanics promote this. I especially don't see how talking about an Outfit competition system will promote this.

This system was briefly mentioned, and no specifics have been released. How can you possibly have such a strong opinion about this? No one really knows what the specifics are! As I said before...

Outfit competition will not promote TK.
Outfit competition will not dissuade TK.
Outfit competition has nothing to do with TK.

I'm waiting to be convinced otherwise.

Franchize · 2003-05-16, 04:03 PM

Evil Pig,

Then don't participate in the Outfit competitions. I am sorry that another outfit doesn't like your outfit and is killing the guys in your outfit, like I said and you agreed there are a$$holes out there, and I'm sorry but like I said, they will always be there, whether or not there are outfit competitions will not change this.

I assure you, that me and my friends will never participate in TK'ing under any circumstances. The End User License Agreement (EULA) will more than likely have a section about prohibited behavior (ie. generally irritating other players) and if activities like this take place you can petition the GM's to have these players spoken to and possibly banned if there is a trend of this type of behavior from them.

I understand your point and your concern, and it is valid. It sounds like you have had similar experiences as I have in MMOG's, and like you I am hoping that Planetside will be different.

Revolver · 2003-05-16, 04:09 PM

You all are being pretty damn naive, with the exception of Pig, who I've noticed is the only one out of you to view things realistically. Mind you, I'm not saying optimism is a bad thing, but when you look at something that can ruin your gaming experience, you need to look at it from all angles. Hostility WILL happen. It WILL promote a sense of competition (not the healthy kind) among a faction. Not necesserily directly, which is how some of you seem to interpret it, but through other ways. I can invision an outfit (lets call them "Outfit A") wiping the floor with another outfit (a.k.a. "Outfit B"). So even when the competion is over, Outfit B will most likely not have a very strong liking of Outfit A. I'm not saying that they will blatantly go into search-and-destroy mode, I'm saying that wen Outfit A needs Outfit B's help, Outfit B will probably refuse Outfit A. And yes it can lead on down to TKing, and that's what makes this competition a bad idea.

And for those of you who mentioned Army vs. Navy football games, that's apples and oranges. The U.S. Military is trained to view every friendly soldier as a comrade, regardless of how you feel about them. All PS players are "trained" to do is shoot something that looks enemy-ish. Or if you don't like it.

And if that doesn't convince you, then stop looking at the glass half-full, and just look at every outcome. I know that all of you are smart enough.

CrazyMike · 2003-05-16, 04:13 PM

I think you guys are reading too much into this.. all they will probably do is copy what Everquest did. They will hold competitions within each empire to win you the right to represent them on your server for a "best of the best" type competition. The top three teams fight it out and they announce which empire rules the server.

Competition does not equal Tking.

CrazyMike

Big Bro · 2003-05-16, 04:18 PM

Yes, I see your point. I don't agree with it, and I think you're being unreasonable about as much as you think I'm being naive.

Your viewpoint is similar to the viewpoint that playing Monopoly encourages cutthroat capitalism and a "do-whatever-it-takes" attitude to getting ahead in the world. It's evil and playing that game is just a plain bad idea. We don't want to promote that kind of behavior.

You are taking a very simple and possibly valid idea and turning it into da devil. It's ideas like this that fuel gun control and crap like that. It's not the GUNs that are the problem, it's the people!

"Guns don't kill people, I DO!"

Revolver · 2003-05-16, 04:27 PM

Trust me, if you got to know me, you would never associate me with pro-gun-control beliefs.

And what you are saying makes no sense. You didn't debate my opinion, just attacked me in a creative way.

Give me something to debate. I'm not going to respond to attacks on my character.

And please, stop using generalizations. The monopoly thing is something called "Red Herring"--a form of fallacious logic.

I don't mean to incinuate anything, I'm just asking for some valid reasons.

Chanfan · 2003-05-16, 04:40 PM

I think he did raise a valid point, with the Monopoly example - but it should have been stated non-personally. But in any case�

Yes, I do belive there are folks out there that will get out of hand, and the competitions might aggravate that behavior for them.
However:

I think those people will cause problems in any case,
I think the potential fun to be had is greater than the threat of problems,
I think that not having competitions would be allowing them to control and remove our fun, rather than coming up with ways to limit and control problem players (or outfits).

The community should be self-policing for outfits. If you have a TKing player in an outfit, kick him. If you have a TKing outfit, other outfits should spread the word, and just not work with them - and report them.

It might be possible to track outfit vs. outfit grief points, or outfit vs. player grief points. I do understand that you have to realize that some folks, or even outfits, will TK and cause problems, and you have to think of the worse case scenarios for this and make sure it's livable for the community. I don't think it's the most likely scenario, however.

Big Bro · 2003-05-16, 04:48 PM

Deal. You stop calling people naive and I'll stop assaulting your character. BTW, that wasn't my intent, I was just trying to show how absurd that I see your viewpoint. Also, I've had a really bad day, and PSU has been flaky at best. No offense intended.

Please support your contention that Outfit competition will contribute to TK. EVILPIG, the original poster, contends that this will promote TK. If you want to "debate" this, then please offer supporting evidence of this.

My contention is that people TK for various reasons, none of which are founded in logic. They get a thrill out of griefing other players. They "just don't like" the other person and they have a terrible temper. I don't know, but I'm quite certain that adding outfit competitions will neither stop, nor contribute to this behavior. The people that TK have other fundamental issues other than the game mechanics. If you believe this change in the game will affect how people play, please give your reasons and convince me. Because currently, I don't believe that is true for the reasonable case.

I guess I'm saying that your contention is just as much of a "Red Herring".