Another heavy assault post (dont flame me) - Page 2

Warborn · 2003-06-09, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Led
Ummm... you cannot just 'spray' and kill with the hammer. You have to aim, and aim well, or you will be fried against anyone with reasonable skill.

You need to place the crosshairs over the target and click the mouse button. That's it. You don't need to take into account recoil, given that it's a shotgun, so you can run and gun Quake-style without any significant skill requirement involved. Considering that it's also a close range weapon, hitting the target with it is also about as brainless as one could imagine. Anyone who does not kill infantry with ease while using a jackhammer at close range should seriously reevaluate their role in PS.

Hell, several times last night I was ripped apart by a chaingunner at point blank range just because I missed one shot.

Well, when dealing with heavy weapons, the more skilled user will generally be the one that walks away.

Ducimus · 2003-06-09, 12:59 PM

Just a few humble (meaning not wanting to flame anyone) disagreements.

As per the comment about heavy weapons being balanced due to their range. I disagree. While i havent used a lasher, i have used a chaingun, and wanting to see what its like on the giving end of the boomstick O'Death (cause this weapon kills me more than anythign else) the jackhammer.

I agree that the jackhammer does take a reasonable skill in Aiming. Although, its not like aiming a rifle. Generally speaking in Close Quarters Combat, the jackhammer is really an awesome weapon. Its ROF, combined with how hard it hits for is nice. Yes its a short range weapon, which should be its inheirant shortcoming. Problem herein on the recieving end is that although this weapon isn't all too useful out doors, it is extremely useful where infantry fighting counts most. In towers and bases. Anyway, having been on the recieving end, i created a BR3 character on another server, and in one instant action, racked up 19 kills in about 5 mins defending a tower. I died twice. In my mind, that confirmed to me what this weapon is capable of. I could never have accomplished this with a chaingun given the same circumstance.

The problem with the chaingun is, once gain its COF. To better manage it, ive found that you either have to crouch (which your not always able to do given how fast fighting can occur), and/or fire in short bursts. The problem with bursting, is that to burst properly.. that is to say, the time between when you first fire, and when the COF enlarges too much is EXTREMLY short. In my mind, this really limits the damage capacity of the weapon since your not barfing as much lead as you could. If you do not burst, the COF enlarges tremendously. Last night i thought i had the drop on this venu, he was just around the corner. I poped out around the corner and quite litteraly jammed the muzzle of my chaingun into his chest and opened fire.

How close he was to dying i do not know. But this much i do know, he returned fire with a med assult weapon and outdamaged me, hence killing me. How could he possible outdamage me at point blank range with a chaingun? The COF had bloomed out so large, that i was hitting the wall behind him with what can percievable be 50 to 75% of the rounds i was firing. Now when im at point blank range, and standing still, and that weapon does not chew him up like roadkill smeared on the highway, then something is askew here. GIven those circumstances, by all rights i should have dropped him. If i had jackhammer, a cycler, a sweeper, hell, maybe even a punisher, i would have dropped him.

The HA weapons are not balanced, of this im certain.

SpacemanSpiff · 2003-06-09, 01:43 PM

Ducimus - Good observations and well stated. I, too, have experimented with all 3 heavy weapons and have run into similar experiences. No flames should be forthcoming in your direction at all. I prefer the Jackhammer of the three, for one reason only. For the most part (and this CAN be argued), I feel that base/tower caps are ultimately won with close range combat. So, I am a TR that regularly stock piles 18 Jackhammers in my locker. Problem solved.

Led · 2003-06-09, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Warborn
You need to place the crosshairs over the target and click the mouse button. That's it. You don't need to take into account recoil, given that it's a shotgun, so you can run and gun Quake-style without any significant skill requirement involved. Considering that it's also a close range weapon, hitting the target with it is also about as brainless as one could imagine. Anyone who does not kill infantry with ease while using a jackhammer at close range should seriously reevaluate their role in PS.

Yeah, you could say the same thing about using any heavy weapon, hell, even a rifle in close quarters.

Well, when dealing with heavy weapons, the more skilled user will generally be the one that walks away.

Oooh, harsh. No need to get flamey.

Plato · 2003-06-09, 03:06 PM

More TR are using the chaingun now. It is a viable weapon but not for 4 certs.

It can kill stuff at medium range if you crouch and fire in 5-6 round bursts, get up, stafe, crouch, burst and repeat.

At close range it's terrible because you MUST crouch for the CoF to come back down quickly between bursts. Half the reason the TR pick them up is to trade it for a Jackhammer.

I've noticed that 90% of NC are now carrying the Jackhammer so keep your distance. I normally play a DC max so this is good for me. Many NC troops just don't outfit themselves against Max units. They are just jackhammer / gauss and a shed load of ammo. Oh and one plasma grenade.

Tricky · 2003-06-09, 03:11 PM

Awesome post Ducimus,

I'd respond but my feelings have pretty much been covered by you and Spiff. I too have quite the collection of Jackhammers in my locker.

Airlift · 2003-06-09, 03:22 PM

Leave the jackhammer alone, I have a locker full of them. I have to say, there is no finer moment in the game than when you kill an NC with a Sweeper and then leave it on the corpse in place of his Jackhammer.

SpacemanSpiff · 2003-06-09, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Airlift
Leave the jackhammer alone, I have a locker full of them. I have to say, there is no finer moment in the game than when you kill an NC with a Sweeper and then leave it on the corpse in place of his Jackhammer.

Showoff.

Kikinchikin · 2003-06-09, 04:41 PM

Led not everywepaon is a point and click weapon. Jackahmmer has no problems with CoF at all u can hold down the mouse and just move around and be accurate. Chaingun is a more skilled HA weapon IMO. I still love it, even tho it aint as good as jackhammer. And im gonna start filling up a locker that sounds like a bueno idea.

oh and about the skill thing, that is not true a lot of the time. Few days ago i come up on an NC agile suit just like me. His back is facing me and I open up on him at point blank range with my chaingun, after 2 seconds he turns around strafes and fires two shots killing me. I'm sure he was wounded, but thats not fair.

Warborn · 2003-06-09, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Led
Yeah, you could say the same thing about using any heavy weapon, hell, even a rifle in close quarters.

Nah, because rifles require you to keep the rifle trained on the target, and take a good few bullets to put your enemy down. Depending on the range, you may also have to adjust for recoil. With the jackhammer, it's point and click a couple times, end of story.

Oooh, harsh. No need to get flamey.

Who's flamey? You're just being overly sensitive because you've grown attached to the jackhammer and want to pass your success with it off as pure skill, rather than the weapon doing the majority of the work.

SpacemanSpiff · 2003-06-09, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Lilbird2431
Led not everywepaon is a point and click weapon. Jackahmmer has no problems with CoF at all u can hold down the mouse and just move around and be accurate. Chaingun is a more skilled HA weapon IMO. I still love it, even tho it aint as good as jackhammer. And im gonna start filling up a locker that sounds like a bueno idea.

oh and about the skill thing, that is not true a lot of the time. Few days ago i come up on an NC agile suit just like me. His back is facing me and I open up on him at point blank range with my chaingun, after 2 seconds he turns around strafes and fires two shots killing me. I'm sure he was wounded, but thats not fair.

This particular scenario happens quite often. 2 seconds seems a bit long, but you know a weapon is overpowered when you're unleashing the chaingun at point blank range to a person's back and still get owned when he turns around with the Jackhammer. My only wish is for the chaingun to someday get better accuracy in medium range battles (i.e. - lower recoil/minimize CoF displacement). One shouldn't have to fire any kind of chain gun in bursts for optimal efficiency. That's not how a chaingun works. Chaingun ought to = press the trigger and spray for ultimate crowd control. Jackhammer ought to = most deadly close range weapon in the game. In fact, it does.

Plato · 2003-06-09, 06:17 PM

Given that the weapon is supposed to be a beefed up cycler and that the chaingun would be the ultimate killing machine if you could effectively spray with it- maybe the weapon should be scrapped entirely...

Let's have a TR Jackhammer that's less damage per shot but high RoF

Call it the Thunderhammer!

SpacemanSpiff · 2003-06-09, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by Plato
Given that the weapon is supposed to be a beefed up cycler and that the chaingun would be the ultimate killing machine if you could effectively spray with it- maybe the weapon should be scrapped entirely...

Let's have a TR Jackhammer that's less damage per shot but high RoF Call it the Thunderhammer!

LOL!

Led · 2003-06-09, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Warborn
Nah, because rifles require you to keep the rifle trained on the target, and take a good few bullets to put your enemy down. Depending on the range, you may also have to adjust for recoil. With the jackhammer, it's point and click a couple times, end of story.

Who's flamey? You're just being overly sensitive because you've grown attached to the jackhammer and want to pass your success with it off as pure skill, rather than the weapon doing the majority of the work.

You are not speaking any sense. You make it sound as if just holding down the fire button with the hammer makes things fall over dead no matter where they are.

And by extrapolation, anyone that uses a sweeper also has no skill. Or chainguns. Or lashers. Or anything that works best up close.

By the way, can the condescending attitude.

tmartinez72 · 2003-06-09, 07:06 PM

During beta as a TR, I don't think I ever died to a Lasher indoors, so I'll just leave that one out. And yes, people fired them at me indoors.

As for the jackhammer, it's fine. Tho I rather go against a CG than a jackhammer.

Problem with a jackhammer, the range is incredibly short. As short as the CG. When you kill a jackhammer wielder with a beamer at 15 meters, you own them. Unfortunately, you do not have that luxury inside.

Here's the mentality with CG wielders I run into. Run down the hallway with the mouse button depressed and never stop. I don't know HOW many times a CG wielder would run by me spraying. I'd turn around and shoot him in the back with a sweeper. I'm sure he's thinking, "This piece of shit. CG sucks".

Worse yet, he's on the hillside spraying everyone and wielding it like leaf-blower. After the VS stop from laughing, we send the infil to knife him.

Not that the jackhammers don't this, they just seem to do it less often.

The lasher is laughable. I play VS now, and tried it for kicks. Dumped it. Perhaps I was jaded never being killed by it in beta.