IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Sheppe]

Ps2 won't be an arena-like game with sides competing to get a certain amount of kills, so it doesn't need a killcam so you can go and camp the guy that killed you.

However

Presumably medic's will be able to resuscitate downed players, if there's no kill-cam or period of time when the person's body remains on the floor, how can they be res'd?

[Justaman]

Originally Posted by acosmo

these aren't the old fps days, and camping was only disliked in games without a strategic focus (quake/counterstrike/unreal tournament).

experienced players do not need insight into why they might have died. they understand the scale of the combat they're in and acknowledge the risks in their decisions.

i understand killcams can be useful in spotting hackers, but even mentioning this as support for killcams hints at a possibility that SOE may not be prepared for handling hackers and exploiters.

Yes, but, you have to consider the inexperienced players as well.

Wile I'm against kill cams, I still think they are a great learning tool.

So what I propose, is rather than put kill cams into ps2, as an easy /wipehandsandpatourselvesonthebackitsfinished feature, give the game the option to parse all of the combat, so that it can be replayed by the client later on. When using this feature, it will highlight specific points along a time line that represent points of interest (that can be changed from defaults by the player) such as deaths, kills, cirtain things exploding. W/E might be significant.


This way, someone who wants to see why they died, or what they can learn from the events from a new perspective, they can. Wile at the same time, not changing the meta game by requiring people to consider kill cams in their strategy.

This also allows people to notice hackers all the same.

Implementing this sort of "combat playback" , would appease both sides of the fence in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Sheppe

Ps2 won't be an arena-like game with sides competing to get a certain amount of kills, so it doesn't need a killcam so you can go and camp the guy that killed you.

However

Presumably medic's will be able to resuscitate downed players, if there's no kill-cam or period of time when the person's body remains on the floor, how can they be res'd?

By making sure that players are aware of what support classes are near them before hand, so that they can anticipate the opportunity for a res.

Also, your argument only applies to people who don't operate with an outfit, as they are organized enough to know what each other is doing.

What they should add to solve this problem, is, ON DEATH, or rather, wile you are dead, a flashing indicator that represents there being a medic close by that is capable of ressing you (so immediate respawn might not be the best option, use your own judgment). It might even show how far away and what direction. Or maybe its a skill of the medic them selves, that they can use to alert corpses :P

That way, even solo players would realise there is an opportunity for ressurection.

[texico]

Originally Posted by Rbstr

We're calling it more of a war simulator and adding imersion enhancing things like a sprint mechanic and iron sights/real aiming mechanics is catering?
Battlefield is FPS franchise I currently play most and I wouldn't usually play a game like Planetside? I did play Planetside for several years. I liked it a lot. But to say that certain mechanics don't belong in the game through some kind of Planetside purity argument is silly.
Comming back for a while last summer it feels floaty, disconnected, and, frankly it's a crap shooter. The only thing it has going for it, in terms of game mechanics, is the scale.

The less of PS1's acctual fighting mechanics that survive into PS2, the better.

PS1 "vets", and especially current players, need to get over this idea that the new game should conform to junky mechanics that were, basically, the product of techincal limitations when the game was being developed.

I meant it's catering for the particular players of battlefield and call of Duty (henceforce collectively known as CallField for simplicity) who wouldn't play a game like PlanetSide (which is probably a reasonable chunk).

I don't see how PlanetSide 1 is broken. I play TF2 regularly but I have also played the latest CallFields and PlanetSide feels a hell of a lot better (the shooting mechanics in particular over TF2).

[Sabrak]

Originally Posted by RadarX

This has obviously been a very controversial topic for some of you. We want you to know we are of course reading through all this feedback.

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

Ummm...

What I'm about to say might sound stupid, but yeah... I'll say it anyway.

If KillCam HAS to be in PS2, and that I could choose its form, I'd say: make it so that it doesn't show anything going on "around" the scene.

Don't let us see a foot away from the shooter.
Fill the "holes" with some kind of virtual blur, so you can't see where he exactly was, but still can understand he was hiding behind a rock.

Show him taking the shot, and then follow the last bullet (the fatal one) going to you, still in a "virtual" view, so you have an idea of how far he was, but not of what or who is between you and him.
Then, a view of your guy dieing.

Finally, it could go back to the shooter, showing him in a sort of picture or a slow-mo (virtual stuff all around, you got it), with infos on him like his name, empire, outfit, battle rank, and maybe the weapon/vehicule he used to kill you.


tl;dr: don't show anything substantial around the shooter and his line of sight. Hide it with some kind of stylish sensor-disruptor effect.

That's the only kind of killcam that would be ok to me.
The one that doesn't show you any kind of intel on your enemy's situation on the battlefield.

[Figment]

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Considering the great majority of the time it will be pretty apparent who and what you died from, I can't imagine anyone sacrificing an implant slot to get a view of the rare death that came from unknown source.

Its not very good intel.

It's not about who and what, it's about who, what general area and what else may be there. If you merely look in the general direction you'd get to see things you otherwise would not have seen. Considering you would lie there watching for a while after death, you have time to observe without having to worry about cover.

As others have noted, there's plenty to see a short time after a death.

Not sure what you compare it with, but I compare any cam with not having a cam at all. You seem concerned mostly with what killed you, while if you were interested in recon intel enough to get the implant, you'd get it because you'd want to estimate the threat, the angles and see if you can't figure out the location by seeing some movement for yourself.

More than enough intel to get for your next life and your buddies in those 4-5 seconds!

[Gandhi]

I think we're confusing terms a bit here. To me a kill cam shows the player who killed me, either replaying how he killed me or showing him just after he did. Anything else isn't really a kill cam, it's just a normal 'death cam' like we had in PS1.

In other words, you can have a delay after dying that shows you your body and your surroundings without having a kill cam. Personally I think this is the best solution, because I don't think showing the killer really teaches you anything other than where good camping spots are on maps you haven't played before. Am I missing anything else you can learn from kill cams that can't be learned through other things?

[waldizzo]

I'm against kill cam's in this game, but understand why it'll most likely be an included feature.

If it must be in the game, I'd rather see the kill cam be a fixed camera, behind the shoulder 3rd person replay of the player that got killed. Say the last 10 seconds before death. This seems like a middle ground between a player figuring out what happened to them but yet also keeping the exact location of the killer ambiguous.

For a sniper example: I'm running across an open field and i get sniped in the face. While I'm on the spawn screen, I'd see a 3rd person reply of myself running across an open field and getting sniped. I'd know the general direction of the sniper (which I'd already know from hit detectors), but not the exact location.

For a general crazyness example: I'm taking part in a base attack, running through the hallways and clearing rooms. Some guy with a JH comes up behind me and shoots me in the back. I go to the spawn screen and see some NC unloading into my back. Again, I'd get some vision into what happened to me and what I could do better. That NC is long gone by the time I get back there.

This is a "best of both worlds" solution in my opinion. I think this solution will also provide hilarious videos.

[IronMole]

Kill cam should not be in game - it's just a waste of animation/memory and bandwidth.

Keep it to how PS has it, rotating camera of death.

[CutterJohn]

Originally Posted by Figment

It's not about who and what, it's about who, what general area and what else may be there. If you merely look in the general direction you'd get to see things you otherwise would not have seen. Considering you would lie there watching for a while after death, you have time to observe without having to worry about cover.

That depends entirely on how the cam operates. If it is centered on your character, it wouldn't let you see that sort of stuff.

And I question the value of any of this intel. This is planetside. You're not exactly getting intel on the opposing fleets doctrine and resistance holes, or the password to get inside some enemy station for the fight tomorrow night. Secrets don't last long because people are everywhere, and theres just no point. Theres not going to be 20 guys hiding in a room in the base that you'll accidentally discover. They will be fighting and making their presence known. You're not going to discover a gal.. Aircav and cloakers will have a bead on them right away.

People are acting like this game is way more in depth than it is. Theres not much room for guile or subterfuge.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Why are we arguing over a mechanic that we have no idea how it is even going to be implemented?

[acosmo]

because after 19 pages, radarx kind of made it into a new thread

Originally Posted by RadarX

This has obviously been a very controversial topic for some of you. We want you to know we are of course reading through all this feedback.

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

so far, ideas 1 and 2.

in response to your question, RadarX, killcam could still be employed for the purposes of helping new players understand the game. once players reach a certain rank, or level of experience, however, they would cease to have a killcam handicap.

how about making the ability to use kill cam into an implant? in fact, have this implant be with your character since it is made. you cannot change this implant out for anything else until you gain a certain rank/level of experience, whereupon you may switch your killcam implant out for something else or choose to keep it.

[texico]

I think the intel thing is the biggest concern. It will feel very unnatural and feel a little unfair if everyone who dies gets a valuable information about the location of a person and what's around him. Example, in TF2 this morning, I got killed by a demoman. My immediate reaction was to spawn a scout and go after him, but I noticed on the killcam he was standing with a sentry just around the corner. So I spawned a spy, sappered it and stabbed him.

I didn't have to learn that info myself, the kill-cam gave me it, and I used the mechanic to win.

So yeah, if you want restriction ideas, then as has been said just displaying the character in some kind of black background so the details of what's around him can't be seen is the best way to go.

Although I also like the idea of having a normal killcam for low-battlerank characters (like >BR6 in PS) so brand new players might be able to learn from it, but it can't be used by veterans as an advantage.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

Why are we arguing over a mechanic that we have no idea how it is even going to be implemented?

Because we do have some idea how it'll be implemented.

I'd say read the thread, but it's 22 pages. Use the "search this thread" tool and look for "ornament".

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

I don't see why. It would only be kind of important if you were trying to some lone wolf elite sniper. Plenty of snipers will be sniping in a gaggle on top of a hill with a sunderer/gal nearby and aa cover, their position immediately apparent to anyone with a pair of brain cells to rub together, or will just be a squad sniper while running with the squad, ready to poke at HA users or people in turrets or something.

Sometimes you say some daft things, John.

Yes, decent snipers will, very often, try and find a better spot than the gaggle of snipers sitting directly opposite the enemy. Generally any spot other than where the gaggle of snipers congregate is a better spot than where the gaggle of snipers are, because there aren't a gaggle of snipers there.

Originally Posted by CutterJohn

Not a lot of people would consider it necessary. The act of shooting still gives your position away to anyone who can see it. Not having the implant means one person is guaranteed to know your general position, but does not guarantee nobody else saw the tracer. It also does not guarantee the person will immediately drop everything to seek revenge, nor does it guarantee they will care enough to report your position, nor does it mean they are in a squad that they can report it too, nor does it mean that they will be able to give quick and accurate locational data, nor does it guarantee the squad will drop everything to immediately go hunt you down, nor does it mean you won't have the opportunity to relocate before anyone gets to your previous position(you are a sniper, after all.. they tend to be a ways off). And all of that only applies if you are actively trying to hide your position.

Having the implant is simply not much of an advantage, and the intel the enemy gets not very special.

Did you watch either of the videos posted in the "Making Snipers useful." thread? Most people don't pay attention to their hit indicators and tracers in the way you're describing. That's why they were able to sit where they were and do their thing for as long as they did.

If you got killed by a sniper and had a kill cam of their location, would you honestly neither try and kill him nor communicate his position? The only time I can remember someone leaving me alone once they realized where I was, was when they found my position enough of a novelty that they wanted to see how long it took for someone else to realize where I was.

[TheRagingGerbil]

Originally Posted by Vancha

Because we do have some idea how it'll be implemented.

I'd say read the thread, but it's 22 pages. Use the "search this thread" tool and look for "ornament".

I will stand by my statement. Just because Higby comes out and says that the novelty items glued on my tank will be visible in the killcam does not mean that my position is going to be given away.

Based off of what he said, the kill cam may only show you the platinum "PWNAGE" pendant hanging on the iced-out chain around my neck as I take your head off with my BoltDriver.

But seriously, the kill cam will most likely show my character model and the weapon I used to kill you with on a blurred background.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by TheRagingGerbil

But seriously, the kill cam will most likely show my character model and the weapon I used to kill you with on a blurred background.

Unidentifiable/removed terrain would be fine, but if you're being serious, I don't know why you think that's the most likely scenario?