Higby on Air/AA balance.. Is it the fast track to Airside? - Page 22

Whiteagle · 2012-12-05, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Whiteagle. Please look up What HARD COUNTER and SOFT COUNTER mean.

MrBloodworth, please go fuck yourself...

Phalanx AA and Skyguard Turrets SHOULD be the Hard Counter to baseline/AA ESFs and Galaxies.

I will give you that they'd be a Soft Counter to A2G ESFs and Liberators, but that's because those are dedicated Ground Attack Aircraft.

Dragonskin · 2012-12-05, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

MrBloodworth, please go fuck yourself...

Phalanx AA and Skyguard Turrets SHOULD be the Hard Counter to baseline/AA ESFs and Galaxies.

I will give you that they'd be a Soft Counter to A2G ESFs and Liberators, but that's because those are dedicated Ground Attack Aircraft.

That doesn't make sense. Air is Air regardless of what it is designed to attack. If an AA turret is good for A2A ESF it should be equally as good for A2G ESF... vice versa.

Turrets in general are terrible though. AV turrets get 2 shot by tanks.. which they are designed to kill.. I would think.. Unless they are designed to kill sunderers, but that would be a pretty narrow design choice that doesn't make sense either. AV turrets also take 4 or more hits to kill a tank and have roughly the same fire rate as a tank.. so guess which one wins?

Whiteagle · 2012-12-05, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

That doesn't make sense. Air is Air regardless of what it is designed to attack. If an AA turret is good for A2A ESF it should be equally as good for A2G ESF... vice versa.

Well I actually did look up the difference between Hard Counter and Soft Counter.
Turns out it's whether or not something can overcome your Counter with enough skill.
Hence it would be easiest for an AA Turret to take out a pure A2A ESF as opposed to one packing an A2G option.

Originally Posted by Dragonskin

Turrets in general are terrible though. AV turrets get 2 shot by tanks.. which they are designed to kill.. I would think.. Unless they are designed to kill sunderers, but that would be a pretty narrow design choice that doesn't make sense either. AV turrets also take 4 or more hits to kill a tank and have roughly the same fire rate as a tank.. so guess which one wins?

Eh, I've done all right with AV Turrets...
Honestly, they don't need to be as strong as the AA ones, since Infantry can much more effectively engage ground vehicles.

ShadetheDruid · 2012-12-05, 01:59 PM

If they want Skyguards just to be deterrents who work in teams, they could at least do the decent thing and cut the cert cost in half and have the turret reduce the resource cost of the Lightning itself.

Skyguards (dedicated AA, useless against everything else) being the same cert/resource cost as an ESF with rocket pods (good against everything except other ESFs) makes absolutely no sense and is exactly why no one is willing to pay the cost to roll out in Skyguards.

I know i'm rehashing old points, but it's sad that I should have to.

Dragonskin · 2012-12-05, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

Well I actually did look up the difference between Hard Counter and Soft Counter.
Turns out it's whether or not something can overcome your Counter with enough skill.
Hence it would be easiest for an AA Turret to take out a pure A2A ESF as opposed to one packing an A2G option.

Eh, I've done all right with AV Turrets...
Honestly, they don't need to be as strong as the AA ones, since Infantry can much more effectively engage ground vehicles.

Trust me, I will blow up a AA turret with my main gun in my A2A scythe before it will get me to 50% health. I only use rocketpods to speed up the process and reduce damage taken.

Let me clarify this statement. The reason that this holds true is 1) my main gun has level 1 zoom optics so I don't have to be close to land hits 2) bullets have very little COF so most shots will hit target if the first one hits 3) I can accomplish this with 1 reload (without rocket pods).

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-05, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

MrBloodworth, please go fuck yourself...

Phalanx AA and Skyguard Turrets SHOULD be the Hard Counter to baseline/AA ESFs and Galaxies.

I will give you that they'd be a Soft Counter to A2G ESFs and Liberators, but that's because those are dedicated Ground Attack Aircraft.

Rage.

Not sure why you think Air is not Air and that rocket pods somehow make them different.

Allow me to cut to the chase again.

You dislike Rocket pods, and believe all AA that is not aircraft should stop them cold from ever firing. Alone.

Any other suggestion is how the ground based AA currently works. Combined arms.

I'm also quite sure you have never thought about the other side of this, people who like to fly, or whos draw to the game is flight and air combat.

I shall leave you with this, that, because the world is not black and white, can support and not support your argument. It becomes a situation, in the solution, of relative shades of grey, something that the term "HARD COUNTER" does not allow for. That you keep arguing for.

PS: My apologies, PA is the only site that has this video hosted that's not locked behind a Developer community site wall. Enjoy. I'v had the pleasure of hearing Tom Cadwell's ideas before in different forums ( I do not mean internet ).

Good day sir.

EDIT: I understand why this keeps coming up in this generation. For the past number of years, every game, especially the big three have told you that you, you alone, even in multiplayer are the hero. Planetside, and Planetside 2 ( including games like Brink, ET:QW , WWIIO and games of that type ) require you to shed this idea that you, and you alone are a savior. You are simply a cog in the machine, you are not the savior. You will not down an F-16 with a machine gun. You will not jump out of a plane going mach 5, shoot a bazooka and land safely, unscathed in your jet again. You are not the savior, you are a cog. The sooner you realize this, the better off you will be.

Beerbeer · 2012-12-05, 02:38 PM

Combined arms is nice, but I can solo pod anything just fine, regardless if the poor saps are alone, in an organized squad or part of a gigantic platoon/Zerg.

Actually, I prefer podding a huge, combined attack. More targets.

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-05, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

Combined arms is nice, but I can solo pod anything just fine, regardless if the poor saps are alone, in an organized squad or part of a gigantic platoon/Zerg.

Actually, I prefer podding a huge, combined attack. More targets.

This is like a libertarian saying they should not pay taxes, but still use public services.

Somehow, the lack of AA or aircraft in a highly contested area, is because of your awesome solo skills.

Beerbeer · 2012-12-05, 02:48 PM

I've never said I had awesome skills, in fact on the contrary.

I'm just saying that has a pilot, it's faily easy to fly in alone and pick off targets regardless of their disposition, at least that's been my experience.

Look at it this way. When the Zerg arrives and kills off everyone, a few people, such as myself, will fly back and take out stuff. No ground forces of the same size can achieve what we do. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but it's a farming method that can easily be done in the air, alone.

Whiteagle · 2012-12-05, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

You dislike Rocket pods, and believe all AA that is not aircraft should stop them cold from ever firing. Alone.

...Did I ever actually MAKE this claim?

No.

In fact, noticed that I said "A2G" ESFs and Liberators, as in ether craft having A dedicated ground attack option.
It doesn't have to be Rocketpods, a Zepher, or a Dalton...

Still, they have something that should easy a bit of the edge a dedicated Anti-air platform by all rights SHOULD have on them.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

EDIT: I understand why this keeps coming up in this generation. For the past number of years, every game, especially the big three have told you that you, you alone, even in multiplayer are the hero. Planetside, and Planetside 2 ( including games like Brink, ET:QW , WWIIO and games of that type ) require you to shed this idea that you, and you alone are a savior. You are simply a cog in the machine, you are not the savior. You will not down an F-16 with a machine gun. You will not jump out of a plane going mach 5, shoot a bazooka and land safely, unscathed in your jet again. You are not the savior, you are a cog. The sooner you realize this, the better off you will be.

Teh fuck...

...J...Just... just how are you getting that out of MY Argument?
I'm the guy who's spending time trying to shoot the fucking aircraft down... with the fucking systems designed... TO SHOOT THE FUCKING AIRCRAFT DOWN!!!

Problem is... THEY'VE BEEN NERFED INTO THE GROUND SO THEY CANNOT SHOOT THE FUCKING AIRCRAFT DOWN!!!

Meanwhile, YOU ASSHOLES buzz around in your solopwnmobiles, NUKING THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYTHING, and poopoo us for having the AUDACITY to be able to scratch your fucking paintjobs with our ANTI-AIR FLAK!!!

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

I've never said I had awesome skills, in fact on the contrary.

I'm just saying that has a pilot, it's faily easy to fly in alone and pick off targets regardless of their disposition, at least that's been my experience.

Look at it this way. When the Zerg arrives and kills off everyone, a few people, such as myself, will fly back and take out stuff. No ground forces of the same size can achieve what we do. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but it's a farming method that can easily be done in the air, alone.

...just wanted to shoot down the fucking aircraft with my Skyguard...

...mommy... why won't they let me shoot down the fucking aircraft...

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-05, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

...Did I ever actually MAKE this claim?

Yes. Every time you post.

Originally Posted by Whiteagle

...just wanted to shoot down the fucking aircraft with my Skyguard...

...mommy... why won't they let me shoot down the fucking aircraft...

Also, why do you think every part of a post, is directed at you exactly?

Lastly, I'm not a pilot. I have no rocket pods. I am in an outfit that knows when air shows up, we get our air up, or our AA out. Or we get out of areas being bombarded. Its not hard. We do not, one by one try to rambo the aircraft with carbines

Dragonskin · 2012-12-05, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Beerbeer

I've never said I had awesome skills, in fact on the contrary.

I'm just saying that has a pilot, it's faily easy to fly in alone and pick off targets regardless of their disposition, at least that's been my experience.

Look at it this way. When the Zerg arrives and kills off everyone, a few people, such as myself, will fly back and take out stuff. No ground forces of the same size can achieve what we do. Does it make a difference? Probably not, but it's a farming method that can easily be done in the air, alone.

Hitting the zerg might generate nice kills, but it's a zerg.. zergs are typically defined as a large group of relatively mindless people all just following other people to kill things.. so a zerg is much less likely to carry a bunch of AA than an actual outfit with people fulfilling specific roles in the squad.

Try doing that to an outfit working with coordination and you will be blown to pieces fairly quickly.

You can kill tons of people with a MBT in a zerg too.. because again it's unlikely that most of them will have lock-on rockets.. it will probably be a lot of F2P users trying to dumbfire you as you strafe them..if they are even heavies to begin with. I took on a whole squad with a piddly lightning last night and all they did was dumbfire at me and the few people with lock-ons hit my front armor so it was easy enough to back off, repair and re-engage.

Beerbeer · 2012-12-05, 03:06 PM

I like it when it's a coordinated outfit. Reason why? Tons of tanks all bunched up. They had AA and it didn't matter much.

Whiteagle · 2012-12-05, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Yes. Every time you post.

cAN"t TAlK.,. miNd BRoKen.;.

Originally Posted by MrBloodworth

Also, why do you think every part of a post, is directed at you exactly?

Lastly, I'm not a pilot. I have no rocket pods. I am in an outfit that knows when air shows up, we get our air up, or our AA out. Or we get out of areas being bombarded. Its not hard. We do not, one by one try to rambo the aircraft with carbines

irony irony... flys so high...

WHY CAN'T I SHOOT YOU DOWN WITH MY FUCKING SKYGUARD?!?!

MrBloodworth · 2012-12-05, 03:27 PM

You keep saying that.

You didn't watch the video did you? Not that its an answer to your purely individual perspective.

Also, look up irony, please.