News: Jimmy Whisenhunt Joins PlanetSide 2 Team - Page 23

Otleaz · 2012-06-24, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by AzK

My "Horrible player detection" sense is tingling.

Typical of an NC player. I bet you also think TR "Spray and pray" guns will be easier to use compared to the NC "Slow but powerful" guns.

AzK · 2012-06-24, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Typical of an NC player. I bet you also think TR "Spray and pray" guns will be easier to use compared to the NC "Slow but powerful" guns.

No, but i think that if i'll be fighting people who don't even know the difference between normal jumps, bunny hopping, and strafe jumping, what factions/weapons i'll be using will be irrelevant.

Mohawk · 2012-06-24, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

Typical of an NC player. I bet you also think TR "Spray and pray" guns will be easier to use compared to the NC "Slow but powerful" guns.

Oh look, I don't have an argument any more so I am going to attack the person and rant about a completely unrelated topic! Cute. Also the MCG as a weapon is easier to use than a Jackhammer for most players, the Jackhammer rewards people who can aim well, the MCG is a lot more forgiving for those who can't. What bad players struggle with using an MCG and why they cry its a "hard weapon" is because they have terrible movement and positioning, if you can dictate the range you fight at then you have a much higher chance of winning, many people I see using the MCG like running up to peoples faces and wonder why they then die, it must be because the other weapons are overpowered.

TheInferno · 2012-06-24, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Otleaz

I was being sarcastic since you pointed out that he isn't interested in using CS mechanics in this game. It is a technique I have mastered over the years to divert attention away from the fact that I was wrong.

Ah, my apologies then. I'm sometimes rather thick.

RDX jumpers were in 2142 and they were rather annoying. They'd usually come from behind or from corners, usually on the Titan (loved that game mode), hence my preference for friendly fire on. If you're already in the blast radius and the guy is hopping like a maniac it's really hard to hit him before he kills you and himself.

@Mohawk, how is "My "Horrible player detection" sense is tingling." not attacking the person? Sheesh, ganging up on a dude.

AzK · 2012-06-24, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by TheInferno

@Mohawk, how is "My "Horrible player detection" sense is tingling." not attacking the person? Sheesh, ganging up on a dude.

It wasn't a player attack, i was merely stating a fact that emerged from the guy repeatedly self owning reply after reply, in a funny way. Being a bad or average player isn't something someone should feel insulted for, i don't have a problem with bad players, i even help them if i can, but when on top of being bad they act all arrogant and shit, pretending to know about stuff they clearly don't, then they're annoying. I merely called the guy out on his bs.

He on the other hand, not being able to reply anything relevant on the matter, because there wasn't really anything he could have said in reply, went on on attacking me for my faction and assuming on things i never even discussed in this thread (tr being easy mode compared to nc or whatever).

The difference between the 2 "attacks" is simple. And that's not counting that the former was based on reality while the latter completely made up.

TheInferno · 2012-06-24, 02:17 PM

Ah well, fair enough. Shall we end the argument about this and go participate in one of the many, many, many, many, many, many other arguments?

AMA this week, right?

AzK · 2012-06-24, 02:44 PM

It has just been brought to my attention that there currently are implants to decrease the accuracy penalty you have right after sprinting or lower the movement penalty while using iron sights

. I don't think those penalties should even exist to begin with (or should be really minor) but well, at least it's something.

Bags · 2012-06-24, 03:50 PM

Personal opinions of ours on bunnyhopping aside, do you guys REALLY think he could come in this late and get them to implement it?

ThermalReaper · 2012-06-24, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Personal opinions of ours on bunnyhopping aside, do you guys REALLY think he could come in this late and get them to implement it?

Simple answer: Not really.

Complex answer:

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 04:03 PM

I'm ambivalent about Esports ideals wiggling into the Planetside feel. Taking the video posted earlier into account, I feel like "training" yourself to move to strafe to the side just enough so you can shoot at just the right time to expose yourself the least and whatnot...It just seems....not fun. It happened in PS1 and it was always lame as hell. I'm guessing this isn't what PS2 is shooting for (so to speak), but it still worries me to some extent.

GunZ is a perfect example of what I mean. That game is entirely dependent on frantic key patterns to "style" or some nonsense. It was tedious and boring to play because of weird bugs and twitchy controls that became "part of the game".

Maybe I'm just not competitive enough to appreciate it, but that type of play never appealed to me. I feel like planetside (and most games) should be more about tactics and thinking on your feet and less so about having twitchy reflexes.

I'm serious. When someone says "360 No scope" I wanna flip a table.

Bags · 2012-06-24, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

GunZ is a perfect example of what I mean. That game is entirely dependent on frantic key patterns to "style" or some nonsense. It was tedious and boring to play because of weird bugs and twitchy controls that became "part of the game".

>gunz
>boring

Yeah, I agree, I hate it when games take skill to play.

Fek · 2012-06-24, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I'm ambivalent about Esports ideals wiggling into the Planetside feel. Taking the video posted earlier into account, I feel like "training" yourself to move to strafe to the side just enough so you can shoot at just the right time to expose yourself the least and whatnot...It just seems....not fun. It happened in PS1 and it was always lame as hell. I'm guessing this isn't what PS2 is shooting for (so to speak), but it still worries me to some extent.

Maybe I'm just not competitive enough to appreciate it, but that type of play never appealed to me. I feel like planetside (and most games) should be more about tactics and thinking on your feet and less so about having twitchy reflexes.

I love all these moronic posts implying that any game where the skill ceiling is any higher than the floor i.e. the gunplay is more complex than "run until you see someone, stop, then spray in their direction" lack "teamwork" and "strategy".

CS, BF2, BF2142, Quake, UT all not only have a high individual skill ceiling i.e. you can play it for a long time and always be improving, but also require vasts about of strategy and teamwork. Only morons think engaging gunplay and high strategy/teamwork requirements are somehow mutually exclusive.

I know all you BF3 kiddies think the absolute pinnacle of strategy is accidentally missing someone and being rewarded for "suppression", or alternatively two big orgies of players charging at each other and the bigger zerg automatically being handed the win, but there's actually more to it than that.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

>gunz
>boring

Yeah, I agree, I hate it when games take skill to play.

Since when did GunZ take skill to play? Was just a bunch of people smacking repetitive key combinations to fly around the maps like mary effing poppins with a sword instead of an umbrella...That's not skill. That's called muscle memory.

Skill is a combination of making good decisions and adapting to changing situations. Unfortunately, the nature of video games sometimes allows people to circumvent the necessity to think on their feet. It's a shame, really.

AzK · 2012-06-24, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Personal opinions of ours on bunnyhopping aside, do you guys REALLY think he could come in this late and get them to implement it?

Yeah but the thing is, people against it don't even know what bunny hopping and strafe jumping is all about. While people who actually like it and know what it is, are fully aware that it won't be introduced in the game because it's something that depends from the game's engine as well.

In fact, if we look closely, nobody who likes it is actually asking for it to be in the game, because they know that it's simply not a realistic thing to ask for. They're merely hoping for aiming/accuracy mechanics changes.

Things like being able to fire effectively while jumping, not having your aim terribly screwed after landing from a jump, not having your aim terribly screwed by moving, not having your aim screwed for half a second after you've stopped sprinting don't have anything to do with bunny hopping or strafe jumping, which are game mechanics that allow people strafing and jumping with the correct timing to actually gain speed, momentum, and do moves/reach areas that they wouldn't be able to if they didn't know how to use the mechanic properly, key word in that sentence being "properly" because bunny hopping and strafe jumping =/= randomly mashing the spacebar.

All that people like me ask/hope for is that the devs and this new guy will remove as much randomness from the gunplay as possible, because when your gunplay involves uncontrollable spray patterns, ridiculous crosshair penalties, or some ridiculousness like bf3's suppression, the skill cap gets so low it's not even funny. Moving, stopping, turretting with iron sights up, moving again, rinse and repeat isn't exactly great gameplay, casual and within everyone's reach maybe, but great? Meh.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Fek

I love all these moronic posts implying that any game where the skill ceiling is any higher than the floor i.e. the gunplay is more complex than "run until you see someone, stop, then spray in their direction" lack "teamwork" and "strategy".

CS, BF2, BF2142, Quake, UT, all not only have a high individual skill ceiling i.e. you can play it for a long time and always be improving, but also require vasts about of strategy and teamwork. Only morons think engaging gunplay and high strategy/teamwork requirements are somehow mutually exclusive. I know all you BF3 kiddies think the absolute pinnacle of strategy is missing someone and being rewarded for "suppression", or alternatively two big orgies of players charging at each other and the bigger zerg automatically being handed the win, but there's actually more to it than that.

You've both twisted my point and misunderstood who I was. I've never played BF3, so I wouldn't know about any of that jive. I HAVE played a lot of games where tactics were almost completely dismissed and lame controls schemes were used instead. I've played a lot of UT in my day and there were those people who exclusively learned how to jump and shoot rockets just in the right way to kill people...and that's all they did (to great effect). It became boring doing the same counter for those people and I eventually stopped playing because it was no longer engaging; too many one-trick ponies. Bunny hopping, dolphin diving, no scoping, etc; these are extreme examples of the kind of mentality that a lot of "Pro gaming" people have. It's intentionally misusing mechanics of the game (because it's effective) until it becomes untenable to do anything else.

At a point, that twitchy style of gameplay gets to where your average person won't waste the time to learn how to do it; because it's boring and tedious and they have better things to do with their time. "Casuals" is the pejorative that some gamers have deemed to give them because of it and it's ridiculous. The learning curve for a game shouldn't be so specialized that it can't carry over into another game or facet of life. Games that do that don't offer much for the person who plays it and have already pidgeon-holed itself into a game only some people will enjoy, instead of a game that most people enjoy.

I'm not saying traditional e-sports don't have their place, but it shouldn't be in Planetside. I don't think they're trying to turn PS2 into an e-sport, but the design of items that every player will be interacting with the most (weapons) is incredibly important into what kind of game PS2 will be.

Originally Posted by AzK

All that people like me ask/hope for is that the devs and this new guy will remove as much randomness from the gunplay as possible, because when your gunplay involves uncontrollable spray patterns, ridiculous crosshair penalties, or some ridiculousness like bf3's suppression, the skill cap gets so low it's not even funny. Moving, stopping, turretting with iron sights up, moving again, rinse and repeat isn't exactly great gameplay, casual and within everyone's reach maybe, but great? Meh.

I wouldn't have any issue with setting a proper "skill" level for the game, but I do think tactics and smart play should trump most who may just be more used to the controls, but playing stupidly. That means not implementing things that let people steamroll others with a cheap gimmick.

EDIT: I'm not a fan of CoF either, if that's one of the things you're talking about. Make players learn how to hold low if they're going full auto, just don't make them do things that a real space soldier in the future wouldn't do.