News: Jimmy Whisenhunt Joins PlanetSide 2 Team - Page 24

AzK · 2012-06-24, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

I wouldn't have any issue with setting a proper "skill" level for the game, but I do think tactics and smart play should trump most who may just be more used to the controls, but playing stupidly. That means not implementing things that let people steamroll others with a cheap gimmick.

Let me stop your right there. What if you have a guy (or a squad) more used to the controls AND also playing with tactics with organized mates against people who are only used to the controls OR are only organized?

As Fek said in one of his replies, having deep gameplay/gunplay mechanics doesn't exclude the use of tactics. For some reason, you seem to think it does, and i don't understand why.

People who have mastered the controls and mechanics of a game, spent alot of time with the game, and they know the tactical aspects of it aswell, that's why they'll noobstomp people who are simply playing tactically but who can't actually play properly. To them it may seem that the guy just owned them cause he was abusing a game mechanic, but that couldn't be further from the truth. Besides, if they think that and it's so easy to do, why can't they do it as well WHILE playing tactically together? I'll tell you why: Skill.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by AzK

Let me stop your right there. What if you have a guy (or a squad) more used to the controls AND also playing with tactics with organized mates against people who are only used to the controls OR are only organized?

As Fek said in one of his replies, having deep gameplay/gunplay mechanics doesn't exclude the use of tactics. For some reason, you seem to think it does, and i don't understand why.

A squad who is used to the controls and is using valid tactics (flanking, MAX crashes, breaching, making use of cover etc) and not using invalid tactics (dolphin diving, bunny hopping, anything else that is an abuse of a mechanic) should trump a squad who is not used to the controls, but is using valid tactics. Yes, marginally, because by "used to the controls", I assume you mean handling weapons properly/knowing what the wasd keys do, etc. No one should be "noobstomped" (what a dumbass word) because they have a firm grasp of reality and it doesn't occur to them that something that makes no sense would be incredibly effective.

Engaging gunplay is great! However, there's a blurry line there where one mans engaging gunplay will be someone elses cheap gimmick. My rule of thumb is: If I were actually in the game, would I be able to do it successfully? Popping out of cover by sidestepping for just a split second and having your sights dead on is unrealistic and stupid. It defies logical sense. The same goes for shooting while jumping or running. If it were real life, you'd be spraying lead all over the damn place.

Fek · 2012-06-24, 05:11 PM

Engaging gunplay is great! However, there's a blurry line there where one mans engaging gunplay will be someone elses cheap gimmick. My rule of thumb is: If I were actually in the game, would I be able to do it successfully? Popping out of cover by sidestepping for just a split second and having your sights dead on is unrealistic and stupid. It defies logical sense. The same goes for shooting while jumping or running. If it were real life, you'd be spraying lead all over the damn place.

I think you are looking at the wrong game then, because the only thing less likely than Jimmy Whisenhunt (or any of the devs for that matter) turning Planetside 2 into Counterstrike, is them turning Planetside 2 into ARMA.

AzK · 2012-06-24, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

A squad who is used to the controls and is using valid tactics (flanking, MAX crashes, breaching, making use of cover etc) and not using invalid tactics (dolphin diving, bunny hopping, anything else that is an abuse of a mechanic) should trump a squad who is not used to the controls, but is using valid tactics. Yes, marginally, because by "used to the controls", I assume you mean handling weapons properly. No one should be "noobstomped" (what a dumbass word) because they have a firm grasp of reality and it doesn't occur to them that something that makes no sense would be incredibly effective.

Engaging gunplay is great! However, there's a blurry line there where one mans engaging gunplay will be someone elses cheap gimmick. My rule of thumb is: If I were actually in the game, would I be able to do it successfully? Popping out of cover by sidestepping for just a split second and having your sights dead on is unrealistic and stupid. It defies logical sense. The same goes for shooting while jumping or running. If it were real life, you'd be spraying lead all over the damn place.

The only things that make no sense are the ones you are saying. If a game is built in a way that allows certain things, those things are part of the game's ruleset and should/must be used in order to be the best player you can possibly be. When things are considered an exploit devs patch the game and remove them or change them.

Also, thinking about what you should or should not be able to do in a game comparing it to reality is simply an atrocious thing for me to even read. Reality =/= Video games. Video games have their own rules, knowing the rules and possibilities is part of the skill involved into playing, it is a good and skilled player duty to know them and do everything the games allow in order to best his enemies.

When people draw silly lines and start whining "waah this shouldn't be possible it's a glitch it's an exploit bla bla bla" the real reason behind it is that they aren't able to do it as well as the guy who's owning them, simple fact.

Again, check the video Fek posted, with that cs guy jumping all over the place against those absolutely clueless whiners who choose to simply complain about it rather than actually DO something about it. Reality is they probably wouldn't have even known where to start/what to do to counter him. Pathetic.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Fek

I think you are looking at the wrong game then, because the only thing less likely than Jimmy Whisenhunt (or any of the devs for that matter) turning Planetside 2 into Counterstrike, is them turning Planetside 2 into ARMA.

Lol. Nice try.

I'm not going to completely disregard SoE's history, but Planetside is still a war simulator and your little cheap shooty bit is only a little part of it, if it's made that way at all. My hope is that it's not what all the leet CoD chumps want and they go back to whatever cesspool they crawled out of. As for the FPS players who are more inclined to using their brains, I hope it's something that fits all their expectations. We've got enough mindless shooters.

Bags · 2012-06-24, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Since when did GunZ take skill to play? Was just a bunch of people smacking repetitive key combinations to fly around the maps like mary effing poppins with a sword instead of an umbrella...That's not skill. That's called muscle memory.

Skill is a combination of making good decisions and adapting to changing situations. Unfortunately, the nature of video games sometimes allows people to circumvent the necessity to think on their feet. It's a shame, really.

Sure isn't skill in here.

Fek · 2012-06-24, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

GunZ - Gosu by Solstice (HD) - YouTube

Sure isn't skill in here.

Nope, my expert knowledge of this particular game tells me the player in the video is mashing his space bar whilst randomly clicking his mouse buttons.

WarbirdTD · 2012-06-24, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by whisenhunt

In regards to the players asking where my allegiance lies: Glory to the Republic!

He's ok in my book! I want it to FEEL like I'm shooting vanu in the face.

ColovianFurHelm · 2012-06-24, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Fek

... is them turning Planetside 2 into ARMA.

I'd still play the hell out of that.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by AzK

The only things that make no sense are the ones you are saying. If a game is built in a way that allows certain things, those things are part of the game's ruleset and should/must be used in order to be the best player you can possibly be. When things are considered an exploit devs patch the game and remove them or change them.

Also, thinking about what you should or should not be able to do in a game comparing it to reality is simply an atrocious thing for me to even read. Reality =/= Video games. Video games have their own rules, it is a good and skilled players duty to do everything the games allow in order to best his enemies.

When people draw silly lines and start whining "waah this shouldn't be possible it's a glitch it's an exploit bla bla bla" the real reason behind it is that they aren't able to do it as well as the guy who's owning them, simple fact.

Again, check the video Fek posted, with that cs guy jumping all over the place against those absolutely clueless whiners who choose to simply complain about it rather than actually DO something about it. Reality is they probably wouldn't have even known where to start/what to do to counter him. Pathetic.

Wrong, friend. Devs don't patch exploits because A) They're lazy and don't want to do their job, B) Egotistical and refuse to admit their game has exploits or C) The leet dudes start crying about how it's part of the game now so leave it, because it might just make them lose their internet leetness, and the devs, not wanting to upset what fanbase they have left, are forced to leave it in.

Additionally, I'm glad you find the logical truth atrocious. I can't say I'm surprised. The fact is that you do not retain the right to not be offended. If you don't have the wits or tact to see when a mechanic is obviously being abused, then there's not much to be done for you.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe when someone goes to play a shooter, they're going in with the mindset that it's tactical (CRAZY, I know)? Maybe they see someone jumping around like a grade A lobotominte and don't do it because they know it makes you look dumb as hell and makes no sense? You see, what you want isn't a "skill level", what you want is a lack of intuitiveness for how the engine works. Once someone knows gets used to what buttons do what, they only dividing factor should be how smart they play, not how many hours they've practiced jump shooting.

I don't give a rats ass about some CS video. I've played games long enough to know that cheap antics are abound, I don't need a video to tell me that. The PS2 dev team is VERY connected to it's community and have shown that they don't want to add things that could potentially be abused. The primary focus of a game is to be as fun for as many people as possible. It's not the devs job to cater to the dregs of gaming society who are willing to ruin the game they've worked so hard to create for the sake of e-peen size increases. Go read a book.

Again, I don't think They brought in Wisenhunt to specifically do that. I'm ok with taking some randomness out of the guns (goodbye, cof). I DO NOT want to see cheap gimmicks that will only hurt the game as a whole. That means hyper accurate shooting while jumping and moving. That means excessive strafing. That means any manner of thing that doesn't make logical sense, because without that logical sense, the game is no longer intuitive and only becomes a job, not a game.

babbyravvy · 2012-06-24, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fek

Nope, my expert knowledge of this particular game tells me the player in the video is mashing his space bar whilst randomly clicking his mouse buttons.

oh lordy

Solidblock · 2012-06-24, 05:43 PM

Bunny hop or not, I don't care. I can confidently say from the looking at the beta that bunny hop will not be an issue, but of course that's just me.. Even if it was, I'd do it myself. The fact of doing it and knowing a TR or VS player is crying on the other side of Europe makes me smile ever so slightly.

Ratstomper · 2012-06-24, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bags

Sure isn't skill in here.

Originally Posted by Fek

Nope, my expert knowledge of this particular game tells me the player in the video is mashing his space bar whilst randomly clicking his mouse buttons.

Sure looks that way. Doesn't look like anything is being done. It's just a guy playing a girl with a katana and a pirate hat flailing around next to a guy who is also flailing. She also, evidently controls gravity and can instantly materialize guns out of nowhere without any real consequence of his/her actions.

Even still, It's just looks like a lot of flailing. Not satisfying or engaging.

GuyFawkes · 2012-06-24, 05:47 PM

Adding another link for Jimmy's youtube thing. In this one he mentions ps1 within context of e3 and ps2. Its about half way through. He's doing some good stuff for fps scene. Enjoy.

Bags · 2012-06-24, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ratstomper

Sure looks that way. Doesn't look like anything is being done. It's just a guy playing a girl with a katana and a pirate hat flailing around next to a guy who is also flailing. She also, evidently controls gravity and can instantly materialize guns out of nowhere without any real consequence of his/her actions.

Even still, It's just looks like a lot of flailing. Not satisfying or engaging.

It might not be your cup of tea, but it's kind of douchey to tell them they don't use any tactics or strategy or anything. It's not a war sim, and it never claimed to be. I don't understand how just because it doesn't play like Brownshooter 3 it doesn't take skill.

Also, I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to point out it's a guy playing a girl, when tons of people did that in PS1? Furthermore, female characters had better attack animations in that game, which is why 99% of the playerbase played female characters.