Gun Control - Page 24

Crator · 2012-12-14, 08:08 PM

Really though Figment, the crazys like that going to get a gun regardless of the gun control laws...

Figment · 2012-12-14, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Crator

Really though Figment, the crazys like that going to get a gun regardless of the gun control laws...

Not quite, not all of them would.

Baneblade · 2012-12-16, 10:39 AM

Why do more people die from gun related deaths in Brazil?

They have better gun control laws and far less gun ownership than we do. By your logic, they should be statistically on par as the average European nation.

Hamma · 2012-12-16, 11:12 AM

It's always easy to call for gun control after these events. But the dude took his moms guns. No law helps that.

Figment · 2012-12-16, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

Why do more people die from gun related deaths in Brazil?

They have better gun control laws and far less gun ownership than we do. By your logic, they should be statistically on par as the average European nation.

See the other thread. Brazil is one of the biggest producers of guns, 8/100 people have guns, corruption is much higher and guns "sold to foreign nations" are smuggled back into the country.

They also have far less strict gun laws than European nations.

So basically not at all comparable.

Look at Chili instead.

EisenKreutzer · 2012-12-18, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Greeniegriz

How do you regulate and restrict private sales? Gun shows? Someone buying a gun for someone else?

You regulate and restrict private sales by regulating them. You regulate gun sales at gun shows by outlawing it.

It's dead simple. In no other country but the US is untraceably purchasing a firearm as easy as walking in to a gun show and paying a guy behind a table a wad of cash. And this is legal in many states in the US.

Most countries in europe do this already. Every firearm in my country, from competition handguns to hunting rifles and shotguns, require mountains of paperwork to own and sell legally. As a result, there are less firearms, especially pistols, revolvers and any kind of automatic weapons among our criminals. It really is that simple.

Figment · 2012-12-18, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by EisenKreutzer

You regulate and restrict private sales by regulating them. You regulate gun sales at gun shows by outlawing it.

It's dead simple. In no other country but the US is untraceably purchasing a firearm as easy as walking in to a gun show and paying a guy behind a table a wad of cash. And this is legal in many states in the US.

Most countries in europe do this already. Every firearm in my country, from competition handguns to hunting rifles and shotguns, require mountains of paperwork to own and sell legally. As a result, there are less firearms, especially pistols, revolvers and any kind of automatic weapons among our criminals. It really is that simple.

It doesn't fit their indoctrinated idea of safety, so they won't accept that it's actually reality. And they can't imagine that what they've been told all their lives about freedom rights is actually just a car sale story of the NRA.

And they'll tell themselves that even if it was banned, you could be equally lethal with melee weapons. I suppose that's why they say "don't bring a knife to a gun fight", because it's equally effective, right? And why they're so adamant of having a gun. I mean, if it was all the same, they could overthrow the government in times of need with a knife too. But hey. Then suddenly that argument doesn't fly? How quaint.

And if it was as effective as guns to use clubs, knives and other weapons, this would clearly be represented in having the same murder statistics. Because we too have our "weaker" social-economical citizens. We just arn't foolish enough to arm them because among those are desparate people and people interested in a quick score.

And then we certainly don't go and complain if drug and gang wars start raging, mostly because... we don't make it possible for criminals. You have the FBI, we have Interpol. You have just the Mexican border (a very rugged, open terrain you can easily scout) and an Ocean, we have open borders within the EU and an entire eastern European link with Russia and other former Soviet States, with fastly more difficult to control terrain attached, a sea with much less distance in between in the south and Greece in the south east. And then there's the harbours that are bigger than the USA's harbours.

Don't tell us that it's impossible to protect your borders from guns. We have it worse than you.

Thing is, we don't mass produce guns ourselves, our weapon industries are more military hardware oriented. Opposed to some other countries or have such a country bordering us (USA, Brazil, Colombia, Mexico).

On this subject, it's silly how non-sensical and stubborn Americans are Hamma. At least, the loud 40%. Apparently there's a majority in favour of gun control, even in Colorado, but the politicians simply get bribed by the NRA.

Hamma · 2012-12-18, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Figment

On this subject, it's silly how non-sensical and stubborn Americans are Hamma. At least, the loud 40%. Apparently there's a majority in favour of gun control, even in Colorado, but the politicians simply get bribed by the NRA.

Feelings mutual about you my good friend. Feelings mutual.

Figment · 2012-12-18, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hamma

Feelings mutual about you my good friend. Feelings mutual.

Then we agree on something at least!

BUGGER · 2012-12-19, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

It's always easy to call for gun control after these events. But the dude took his moms guns. No law helps that.

The biggest reason why I haven't followed one of my closest friends into the gun market, aside from being broke and he already dragged me through golf, is my 15 year old brother. I wouldn't say he's troubled, but if he saw a 20 dollar bill on the floor of my bedroom he would take it.

I drive assuming every other driver is a dumbass. Gun owners should think the same even about their loved ones. How do you test that? No idea.

As far as regulations...I couldn't say. Extended mags, quick drops, short stocks, automatics; all these were invented with military appeal, I feel it should stay that way. As Letterman said last night, "I'm around nature quite a bit. And I've never seen any deer worth 30 rounds."

I just don't see our government turning against us or the saying 'shit happens' as a legitimate excuse anymore.

Figment · 2012-12-19, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Hamma

It's always easy to call for gun control after these events. But the dude took his moms guns. No law helps that.

If mommy doesn't have any guns because it's not allowed by law, that actually does prevent that, Hamma.

The only thing you'd have to worry about - and that's your main point of contention - is that people would actually hand in their weapons.

And since you're afraid the guy next door won't, you won't. Your gun laws are basically M.A.D. applied on a small scale: they lead to an arms race that only increase the tension till something blows a lid somewhere.

With this many guns in a society and political or social pressures building (that include pestering at school), it's currently just a matter of time till someone somewhere pops a lid.

But what if one of your militias pops a lid because they think say their president is a communist muslem fascist supported by the UN that will take away their freedom by invading them so they have to be proactive? Some law could mean the drop for them that makes the bucket spill, at which point you really don't want a militia playing judge, jury and executioner.

Baneblade · 2012-12-19, 06:50 AM

A gun grab at the federal level would be the first sign of the need for us to have them in the first place.

It's paradoxical. You can't officially take the guns away without being the reason we have them.

EisenKreutzer · 2012-12-19, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Baneblade

A gun grab at the federal level would be the first sign of the need for us to have them in the first place.

It's paradoxical. You can't officially take the guns away without being the reason we have them.

Then it's not a problem of the government being untrustworthy, it is a problem of gun owners having painted both themselves and the government into a corner.

A new law outlawing private firearms of certain classes, and an amnesty where people can turn in their approproate guns at depots and police departments without reprisal wouldn't work?

Seems to me like the argument that the people must be armed to protect them from the government is really just a wish for armed revolution. Which is kinda... Commie, isn't it?

Figment · 2012-12-19, 08:38 AM

I'd say anarachistic rather than commie.

Baneblade · 2012-12-19, 11:42 AM

It would be civil war.