IMO KillCam killing the Game

[Lord Cosine]

Planetside is a very tough game to teach to new players. I would go as far as calling it unforgiving. New players have to climb a 100ft greased wall before they can start enjoying themselves. Those who climbed the wall were rewarded with some of the greatest gaming experiences of their lives.

I have tried to get all of my closest friends to experience the joys of planetside 1 but it was a harrowing experience. So far I was only able to recruit one, everyone else was immediately put off by their first 4 hours of gameplay, one refuses to ever try it again hehe.

We definitely need some sort of system to teach new players effectively. They need to get a chance to experience what planetside really has to offer them. Perhaps directing the gameplay in a way that routinely shows players the fun tactics and battlefield scenarios that made the first game so awesome.

Make sure new players somehow get to participate in mass gal drops. Have ways to help them participate in max crashes, have robust ways to help group them with other players, and have the mission system reward them for staying together.

I honestly do not think a warfield death cam is the feature that is going to make everything sunshine and rainbows. If the death cam does not have a significant impact on teaching new players then I think it should absolutely be scrapped. However if there is a warfield death cam then it should be specifically tailored towards educational feedback.

[Gortha]

Originally Posted by Vancha

^
Yeah, I just want to clarify that despite my constant opposition to this, I neither think it would be game-breaking nor completely ruin sniping. Calling it a "game breaking feature" is going a tad far I think.

^^ I like to exaggerate a bit

It won´t "break the game" but it will make PS2 another game it will be without Kill Cam. Pleayers will play in another way...

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Gortha

Players will play in another way...

It will change gameplay. That much is certain.

[Gortha]

Originally Posted by Lord Cosine

Planetside is a very tough game to teach to new players. I would go as far as calling it unforgiving. New players have to climb a 100ft greased wall before they can start enjoying themselves. Those who climbed the wall were rewarded with some of the greatest gaming experiences of their lives.

I have tried to get all of my closest friends to experience the joys of planetside 1 but it was a harrowing experience. So far I was only able to recruit one, everyone else was immediately put off by their first 4 hours of gameplay, one refuses to ever try it again hehe.

We definitely need some sort of system to teach new players effectively. They need to get a chance to experience what planetside really has to offer them. Perhaps directing the gameplay in a way that routinely shows players the fun tactics and battlefield scenarios that made the first game so awesome.

Make sure new players somehow get to participate in mass gal drops. Have ways to help them participate in max crashes, have robust ways to help group them with other players, and have the mission system reward them for staying together.

I honestly do not think a warfield death cam is the feature that is going to make everything sunshine and rainbows. If the death cam does not have a significant impact on teaching new players then I think it should absolutely be scrapped. However if there is a warfield death cam then it should be specifically tailored towards educational feedback.

I tried the same with my mates and friends too, but it hardly worked out.

What i realized through this, was taht they just don´t had the patience
and the will to suffer a bit in the beginning. I learned they are guys who like
hte easy way even if it´s boring.

Like you said, they missed one of the best gaming experience they´d had in their lifes.

For me Planetside was the best followed by Darkfall Online.
I am sure PS2 will be my new Number One.

And i really have faith in the Devs, i am very very happy they share that
much infos with us and hear or even speak with us over gamemechanics and
so on.

I only wanted to point out with this thread that Kill Cam won´t be a benefit for Planetside2. In no Way!

reg
Gortha

[Gandhi]

A high skill ceiling and a steep learning curve are two different things. For an example of the latter have a look at EVE, X3: Terran Conflict or Europa Universalis. For an example of the former, have a look at Planetside

Anyway I think this is getting a little off topic. There should be a whole other thread on how to introduce new players to the game, because it's an issue that definitely needs looking into for PS2.

[Hermes]

If we don't see a kill cam in beta for at least a quick test before being canned I will be sad. Even if it turns out that it is truly is a bad choice for the game, this thread smells a bit too lynch mob.

If a feature (that may even be already developed) we haven't even seen yet can be removed by people shouting loud enough then I'm worried.

I love the passion and enthusiasm Just I'm hoping for a dev team which is robust to witch hunts as well as responsive to feedback. Again, I fully admit the kill cam could be a turd or a blessing. Just i'd like to see it judged properly, not drowned at birth.

[Gortha]

@Hermes

You know there are things in the World which are just plain worng or bad, do you?

Kill Cam is one of these

[Hmr85]

Originally Posted by Hermes

If we don't see a kill cam in beta for at least a quick test before being canned I will be sad. Even if it turns out that it is truly is a bad choice for the game, this thread smells a bit too lynch mob.

If a feature (that may even be already developed) we haven't even seen yet can be removed by people shouting loud enough then I'm worried.

I love the passion and enthusiasm Just I'm hoping for a dev team which is robust to witch hunts as well as responsive to feedback. Again, I fully admit the kill cam could be a turd or a blessing. Just i'd like to see it judged properly, not drowned at birth.

Burn the Heretic!!!

No, I agree, I would like to see how they have it in Beta. Then will be able to have proper discussion on the matter. Especially if they already have it designed. But with that said though I am still not a fan of kill cams as mentioned above.

[Tool]

Well hopefully I'll get into the beta and look at this objectively. There's been good points on both sides. Shouldn't be terribly difficult to find that middle ground but I think it's very important that those who don't want killcams in the first place not be forced to get an implant to negate it.

A toggleable option for all players to see and be seen may be the fairest route aside from complete removal.

[Vancha]

Originally Posted by Gandhi

A high skill ceiling and a steep learning curve are two different things. For an example of the latter have a look at EVE, X3: Terran Conflict or Europa Universalis. For an example of the former, have a look at Planetside

I was going to use EVE as an example. It has a suicidal learning curve. There's a picture that illustrates it perfectly...



Now I have no doubt that Planetside 2 could achieve continual growth like EVE, even if it's learning curve was as harsh, but it seems pretty obvious that EVE's learning curve will also have pushed away a lot of players over the years.

[Metalsheep]

Originally Posted by Tool

A toggleable option for all players to see and be seen may be the fairest route aside from complete removal.

I feel that if this was an option, to have the Killcam on or off, it would create an imbalance between players. "Smart" (i.e. win at all costs) players will leave the Killcam on, so they can use it to predict the location of their killer, his squad, or some other tactical data he can use or relay to his team. While players who leave it off will get none of this. It is like the Weather and Flora in Planetside one, "smart" players have it turned off because with it on it limits their visibility or ability to see other players or cloakers that may try to use the shrubs as concealment. Their goal is to win, and use all the available tweaks and options that could give them any kind of edge.

I still say No to killcams, but if they are going to leave them in anyways, dont let it be toggle on/off. (same with weather, flora, and other vision/awareness effecting variables.) Unless players with the Killcam toggled off never give a killcam to players they kill as well. But then they might as well not even add it, as according to the poll, about 70% of players will have it off. Making it a mostly useless feature.

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Gortha

@Hermes

You know there are things in the World which are just plain worng or bad, do you?

Kill Cam is one of these

lol

Ahhhhhhhh I'm just going to go hide under my bed until this thread is over.

Originally Posted by Hmr85

Burn the Heretic!!!

No, I agree, I would like to see how they have it in Beta. Then will be able to have proper discussion on the matter. Especially if they already have it designed. But with that said though I am still not a fan of kill cams as mentioned above.

Hurray! That's totally fair enough - everyone should go into beta armed with preconceptions, it shows we've been paying attention. Kudos for the balanced approach Also booooooo burning. I had weekend plans...

[Tool]

Originally Posted by Metalsheep

I feel that if this was an option, to have the Killcam on or off, it would create an imbalance between players. "Smart" (i.e. win at all costs) players will leave the Killcam on, so they can use it to predict the location of their killer, his squad, or some other tactical data he can use or relay to his team. While players who leave it off will get none of this. It is like the Weather and Flora in Planetside one, "smart" players have it turned off because with it on it limits their visibility or ability to see other players or cloakers that may try to use the shrubs as concealment. Their goal is to win, and use all the available tweaks and options that could give them any kind of edge.

I still say No to killcams, but if they are going to leave them in anyways, dont let it be toggle on/off. (same with weather, flora, and other vision/awareness effecting variables.) Unless players with the Killcam toggled off never give a killcam to players they kill as well. But then they might as well not even add it, as according to the poll, about 70% of players will have it off. Making it a mostly useless feature.

I apologize, I could have been more clear. The idea is that those who have it on could only see and be seen by others who have it on. And those who have it off can not see or be seen on killcams, even if a player they kill has it on.

So if your the sneaky type with it off, your generally not going to be around other players aside from your own outfit. The worry of an another friendly dying and you being discovered through the killcam is minimal.

I don't advocate but it is an alternative.

[Firefly]

Originally Posted by RadarX

If I could delve further though, are there restrictions that would make the kill cam bearable for those who are very against it?

No. I don't know about anyone else in this 20-something page thread, but my reason for being against killcam is, I don't want Planetside to turn into CoD the MMO. Which is why I'm also against: a) taking out everything but direct fire, b) getting rid of Sanctuaries, etc.

[Sirisian]

Originally Posted by Firefly

No. I don't know about anyone else in this 20-something page thread, but my reason for being against killcam is, I don't want Planetside to turn into CoD the MMO.

I don't get it. How does a killcam have anything to do with CoD other than that CoD is one of many games with a killcam. I seriously have problems following some people's logic. Even as a sniper or a cloaker I'm not buying the whole "it's an advantage to see your killer" argument really if players are moving around. If you died by a sniper in PS1 it was obvious it was a sniper. If you died by a cloaker it was also obvious. I mean hell you had the death rotating camera which was essentially a killcam. Why are people acting like seeing a 2 second preview of how the enemy killed you is a big deal? Like it's going to give away some super secret strategy or something.