Galaxy gunships and drop pods as well as other side grades. - Page 3

Toppopia · 2012-05-12, 05:02 AM

Forgive me for being naive, but what is DuelBoxing? I can't contribute until i know what this strange phenomenon is..

Figment · 2012-05-12, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

Forgive me for being naive, but what is DuelBoxing? I can't contribute until i know what this strange phenomenon is..

Using two accounts on two computers and playing multi-crew with one player.

The question is how powerful this person will be: will it have the armour and firepower of two people (Vanguard played like Lightning), or the armour of 10 people and the firepower of one (GG)?

I'd prefer the dualboxing Vanguard situation over the GG. Taking this to the extreme, imagine for a second that a single outfit brings 12 Gal Gunships with 12 people. 12 enemies can have 12 Lightning AA tanks or 6 MBTs with AA gunner. Who will win?

Toppopia · 2012-05-12, 05:15 AM

So how is that more powerful? Did having more than 1 person automatically have more power than only 1 person and how did he control both people at once? I mean did it give you a 10% damage bonus for having an extra person or something like that?

ringring · 2012-05-12, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

The Galaxy Gunship is like a BFR or mammoth mkii: it works in very limited numbers against large numbers of players.

What most people forget is the severe lack of numerical restrictions in a PlanetSide style MMO. You should always balance a unit such that it can be taken out by two or three players, otherwise you create big leverage issues.

The exact dps is completely irrelevant in relation to the gross balancing. The exact dps is for finetuning a concept that works. GG is fundamentally flawed because it is based on very specific use scenario's, presuming and involving large numbers of players on the enemy side that practically may well not be present at all, in order to justify balance.

I think you're getting ahead of yourself a little here figgy. Even in ps1 a GG dies to 2 AA base turrets.

How it will perform in ps2 will all depend on the armour and damage they decide to give it. They probably haven't even done that yet.

Khrusky · 2012-05-12, 06:05 AM

One thing I don't understand is what the Liberator is supposed to be. What we've heard so far is that it was some kind of flying artillery unit, but surely the Galaxy Gunship has usurped that role. Is the Liberator the new Reaver now?

Ceska · 2012-05-12, 06:12 AM

And nobody is speaking of ressource cost of GG ? We can assume that it will be pretty high...
It's too soon to worry about. I am concerned, but I'm sure beta test will clear the use of Galaxy Gunship

Kipper · 2012-05-12, 06:13 AM

Going back a few posts - there will be splash damage in the or because some of the AA will be air-burst. Direct hits not needed.

Figment · 2012-05-12, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Toppopia

So how is that more powerful? Did having more than 1 person automatically have more power than only 1 person and how did he control both people at once? I mean did it give you a 10% damage bonus for having an extra person or something like that?

With one person manning, you can coordinate angles better as you coordinate with yourself. This makes you more efficient than a crew.

If you have 6 people in ONE aircraft, the endurance per player is 1/6th of the aircraft. If one player operates the aircraft, you can have six aircraft, 6 times the endurance and yet the SAME firepower + one gun through dualboxing, even if it is a fraction of the total firepower were all those GGs manned. The assumption made by you and the devs is that the endurance per player is far lower.

Everyone else has far lower endurance and endurance for a unit is typically assigned by the amount of players operating it.

This is called exploiting.

Tikuto · 2012-05-12, 06:44 AM

Galaxy gunships were shit in-game, their design as a variation - everything except its purpose.

Trolltaxi · 2012-05-12, 07:03 AM

I don't think GGs will be the BFRs of PS2. They require way more men to operate, way more easy to counter with AA or aircav (this role will be extremely popular). And probably it will cost a huge amount of resources.

Figment · 2012-05-12, 07:10 AM

They don't require more men to operate. To assert that is tunnelvision.

They can take off just as easily with two people in it as with 6. The endurance is the same, the only difference is the amount of firepower you wield.

Note though that the new Galaxy can have an AA gun (perhaps even Flak) ON TOP. I'm not sure if the people saying Reavers/Mosquitos/Scythes will kill these with ease realise just how powerful that is.

Figment · 2012-05-12, 07:25 AM

Just some simple maths for the people that don't quite get what I'm saying:

4 crew GG:
Pilot + 3 gunners.
Assume firepower of two guns is equal, one is of different type.
Three guns: 2A damage + B damage or A + 2B
1x Endurance

2x 2 crew GG:
2Pilots + 2 gunners.
Two guns: 2A or 2B or A+B
2x Endurance

This is already 2/3s of the firepower for twice the endurance. So it costs you one gun, but you get twice the BASIC staying power. Which with the Law of Leverage increases exponentially. Basic staying power after all does not incorporate such things as flanking, dual sided attacks, multiple targets, tag team, etc.

4x dualboxing GG:
Double the above:
4 Pilots + 4 gunners.
Four guns, meaning either 4A or 4B or 2A + 2B or 3A + B or 3B+A.
Perhaps other combinations still if more types of guns are available.
4x Endurance

This means you get both 1.33x the firepower of a single GG, but also FOUR times the basic staying power.

In each case four users. Dualboxing is not going to be a problem with high endurance units? Say what?

EDIT: The only limitation will be resources. BUT resources can't be that low that you can't ever acquire one daily. Four Galaxy Gunships covering each other are less prone to dieing so will need LESS resources to maintain than a single Galaxy Gunship. On top of that, each individual will have their OWN balance for resources. Meaning that if you dual box, you have TWO characters to rely on as they both gain resources. Similarly, with a crew of five, each of those would be able to pull the next Galaxy Gunship. This is similar to avoiding timers.

Such units should probably have three hour timers or they will dominate every single battle. And that's not a good thing. Note that Thunderwomen was able to keep his Gal Gunship flying for five hours straight.

Satexios · 2012-05-12, 07:58 AM

You don't know anything to come to any conclusions. What if the sidegraded gal cost so many resources you can only get a few.. what if PS2 has a shit loads of people playing AA/Air cav? What if... etc etc etc.

My point is let's wait for beta, if you are right I will compliment you on your nostradamus skills

Kipper · 2012-05-12, 08:46 AM

Hmm, discussion about what may be is all well and good - but stating facts when no information has been revealed seems a little bit silly.

moosepoop · 2012-05-12, 09:21 AM

make it cost A LOT. problem solved.