Vanu shotguns with slugs are just flat out better than TR and NC.

[GreyFrog]

Fair enough. Look at it from our point of view;

* You brought up a game mechanic that you thought needed balancing. The only evidence is personal experience.
* Quite a few people suggested that in their experience its not an issue.
* You proceeded to insult anyone who disagreed.

I'm all up for some discussion, lets see a video of slug sniping in action or some stat suggesting that Vanu shotguns are in someway vastly out performing NC/TR shotguns. Otherwise it seems rather pointless to discuss if you aren't open to other peoples experiences.

Out of interest just how often are you getting pinged by Vanu shotgun snipers?

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by GreyFrog

Fair enough. Look at it from our point of view;

* You brought up a game mechanic that you thought needed balancing. The only evidence is personal experience.
* Quite a few people suggested that in their experience its not an issue.
* You proceeded to insult anyone who disagreed.

I'm all up for some discussion, lets see a video of slug sniping in action or some stat suggesting that Vanu shotguns are in someway vastly out performing NC/TR shotguns. Otherwise it seems rather pointless to discuss if you aren't open to other peoples experiences.

Out of interest just how often are you getting pinged by Vanu shotgun snipers?

Wrong I gave specifics of the inequity as evidence.

Other people basically said 'Were so good that the inequity doesnt bother us." No one disputed the inequity.


Making videos doesnt mean shit - everyone can go into VR and see exactly how the guns compare for shooting long range stationary targets - its just a way for you to pretend my explanation isnt valid.
This isnt about e-penes - its about an onvious advanatge that anyone can see with testing.

And just to be clear the TR and NC shotguns were ok with slugs before this summers nerf. Back then the Vanu was probably better but the NC and TR were good enough that it didnt matter.
But after the nerf the NC and TR became much worse relative to the Vanu.

[Snoopy]

If they're standing still, why don't you aim above their head? Or better yet, get a sniper rifle?

[maradine]

I wonder what you'd say if all the shotgun data across factions was the same.

[Falcon_br]

It is like the battle rifles.
They all have the same status, but the VS has no bullet drop with no drawback.
The point is, nobody uses battle rifle, the few I see using, are VS.

[Emperor Newt]

Originally Posted by Falcon_br

It is like the battle rifles.
They all have the same status, but the VS has no bullet drop with no drawback.
The point is, nobody uses battle rifle, the few I see using, are VS.

And even VS only use them "for the lols". Nobody I know considers battle rifles or slugs (and scout rifles, full auto at least) a weapon worthy to carry around. They are fun to fool around with for a while, but when it matters you choose something else. Slugs were awesome a while back, but after the nerf they are no longer worthy to consider. Not even without bullet drop.

[Plaqueis]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

Other people basically said 'Were so good that the inequity doesnt bother us."

Wrong. Other people said that this means nothing whatsoever regarding balance, and that there's far bigger and more important issues in game that have actual effect on balance and that need fixing way before this one.

[Plaqueis]

Originally Posted by maradine

I wonder what you'd say if all the shotgun data across factions was the same.

Hmm, do i sense Oracles presence..? =)

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by Plaqueis

Wrong. Other people said that this means nothing whatsoever regarding balance, and that there's far bigger and more important issues in game that have actual effect on balance and that need fixing way before this one.

[Don't throw around insults - Chip]

Of course some people say "Its just not important." And thats totally valid.
I have a similar perceptive on MAXes - I think that they are all similar enough that the differences have no effect on the over all balance of the game. Even if some are unfairly better - it just doesnt matter to me.

Thats not at all the conversation that was going on with what you quoted however.

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by maradine

I wonder what you'd say if all the shotgun data across factions was the same.

Id be happy.
Id probably then ask for a slight buff to slugs at range so they got back the level they have ~6 months ago.

[GreyFrog]

Someone put a post up on the official forums accounting for bullet drop and calculating differences in inclination. https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/...t-drop.160840/

At 50m its little over 2 degrees, and this is why most of don't have an issue.

Your specifics were personal experience, there was no evidence. Its exactly your word against others.

Going into VR and comparing how slugs perform only confirms the difference in mechanics. It does not infer better performance. Your logic is terribly flawed and your posts overly aggressive, creating a sad excuse for a discussion thread.

[KesTro]

What gets me is that by Ghoest's own admission he's said he hasn't played much recently while plenty of us who play for hours on a daily basis have suggested that this isn't 'too' big of a difference in power. Honestly if you don't like anything about shotguns I think it's that they've received nothing but nerfs in general since they were added. That being said I still think if you were to get in the game and give it some practice you'd find that you weren't underperforming compared to VS or TR slug shotgun users - You would however be underperforming to a lot of other things.

In case people haven't been paying attention to shotguns in general there's 'a lot' of controversy around them. Some people hate them some love them, some cry OP, others dry UP. There really is no finding that perfect balance with shotguns, someone's always going to feel as if they've been wronged when you change stats around on them.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong or state otherwise in a manner other than "Wrong.".

[Ghoest9]

Originally Posted by KesTro

What gets me is that by Ghoest's own admission he's said he hasn't played much recently while plenty of us who play for hours on a daily basis have suggested that this isn't 'too' big of a difference in power. Honestly if you don't like anything about shotguns I think it's that they've received nothing but nerfs in general since they were added. That being said I still think if you were to get in the game and give it some practice you'd find that you weren't underperforming compared to VS or TR slug shotgun users - You would however be underperforming to a lot of other things.

In case people haven't been paying attention to shotguns in general there's 'a lot' of controversy around them. Some people hate them some love them, some cry OP, others dry UP. There really is no finding that perfect balance with shotguns, someone's always going to feel as if they've been wronged when you change stats around on them.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong or state otherwise in a manner other than "Wrong.".

I dont see how talking about how much I play lately has any relevance since the last time the were changed was long before I backed off.

Maybe I was one of the very few people who liked to flank and hide then snipe people as a light assault - but if you play that stayle which involves shooting stationary targets the difference is obvious - and its EXACTLY like VR.

[KesTro]

Originally Posted by Ghoest9

and its EXACTLY like VR.

I'm sorry but that simply isn't true for anything. Any player of reasonable intelligence isn't going to sit around and let you get those next two shots in. Besides if they're stationary targets like you claim you want to be shooting at bullet drop really shouldn't be an issue, invest in the 4x chevron sight if you have that much trouble adjusting your aim.

[ChipMHazard]

Oh, I don't know. I tend to find that when people don't think there are enemies nearby they do indeed tend to stay relatively still and I also don't tend to find most players to have any reasonable intelligence (Or rather situational awareness).
Players like Ghoest often have plenty of oppertunity to snipe above players with great success