Top cause of players leaving PS2 (2014) - Page 3

BlaxicanX · 2014-08-01, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mordelicius

Who said these are just 'personal issues' with the game?

I did. My assertion is that your argument lacks objectivity; my evidence is the complete and utter lack of any empirical data. Allow me to provide an example:

"People are leaving the game because they don't like getting OSK'd by snipers."

What data can you provide that points to snipers having such a detrimental effect to new player morale that it's producing a note-worthy influence on population hemorrhaging rates? Do you have anything at all to offer beyond anecdotes? If all you have are anecdotes, I can provide plenty to the contrary.

Figment · 2014-08-01, 04:33 AM

None of these affected my choice to stop playing (even if I agree with the snipers shouldn't be infils thing, but mostly for CQC reasons that anything heavier than a pistol is broken with cloak).

To me the most important things are a combination of:

TTK: too short to get situational awareness and respond to a threat. Especially the amount of one hit kills.

Base design: main reason at first was the constant spawncamping. Well, my topics on this have been legendary enough I would say. Main bases too big, spawns in the wrong, open locations, disconnected flow.

Examples of disconnected flow base design:
- One side can teleport in and the defender has to cross long distances to take over a nearby base while also defending the teleport room is just "meh".
- Frequently can't even exit spawns to reach objectives as defender to get to objectives without going through a crossfire of vehicles with one shot kills + infantry with super-low TTKs.

Jetpacks and open bases: (vertical) ease of access + horizontal defenses on huge base design simply make defense next to impossible and a counter offensive virtually unthinkable.

Zerg-overpromoting gameplay: medics with infinite revive/healing juice, engineers (and therefore others) with infinite ammo.

Whack-a-mole gameplay: largely fixed, still exists here and there.

Vehicle combat design: instant seat-switching, solo-heavy tanks (resulting in surges of tank spam that can hardly be countered, overwhelm everything and then die out because of resources, rather than there being a somewhat constant, even fight),

Too many bases leading too information overload, combined with short timers make it next to impossible to "read the map" proper, since anything could happen (lattice improved this a little). Too few continents, non-optimal command features and warpgates that are sanctuaries: leading a campaign for global conquest is practically impossible.

Those are my main reasons.

Gimpylung · 2014-08-01, 06:05 AM

Maybe PS2 has seen declines in population like any other FPS such as BF3/4 or CoD because the game was aimed to appeal to exactly the same demograph. Pops of those games are nowhere near their highest a year and a half later, hence why EA and Activision just rewrap them with a few new maps and some gameplay tweaks year after year. SOE obviously don't have the same ability to relaunch like that.

I honestly think blaming a few base redesigns or weapon/gameplay adjustments is kinda missing the larger picture.

This game is probably perceived as an FPS first and an MMO second by a casual player and as such gets the typical investment of time an FPS gets rather than an MMO.

Hopefully it'll just find its natural level with a playerbase that actually is invested in the game as opposed to a fickle FPS crowd that are always just moving onto the next thing. Whether or not that playerbase is enough to sustain the game as a viable business proposition for SOE remains to be seen. I hope it is.

Rolfski · 2014-08-01, 08:28 AM

Whether or not you agree with these "sources" (I think they're highly debatable), I don't think these are the main reasons people stop playing the game.

Judging by my own outfit experience, most veteran players quit because the game gets stale to them at some point and/or they get burned out with it. You will often see many of them return from time to time though to check the changes.

Judging by the forums, most newer players quit because they have a hard time getting the hang of it and find themselves getting killed over and over again. Most of them never got to joining an outfit.

Mietz · 2014-08-01, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

Whether or not you agree with these "sources" (I think they're highly debatable), I don't think these are the main reasons people stop playing the game.

Judging by my own outfit experience, most veteran players quit because the game gets stale to them at some point and/or they get burned out with it. You will often see many of them return from time to time though to check the changes.

Judging by the forums, most newer players quit because they have a hard time getting the hang of it and find themselves getting killed over and over again. Most of them never got to joining an outfit.

Those seem to be the same reasons as mentioned in the OP, except without the explanation of the underlying cause.

Mietz · 2014-08-01, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Figment

TTK: too short to get situational awareness and respond to a threat. Especially the amount of one hit kills.

Man i remember those threads...

Rolfski · 2014-08-01, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by Mietz

Those seem to be the same reasons as mentioned in the OP, except without the explanation of the underlying cause.

They're definitely not the same reasons and hardly underlying, except for maybe the sniperside buff, which is hardly a newbie issue in this game imo as players are used to one headshot kills in other shooters.

And that "buff" (which imo was more of a nerf as it put a cap on sniper range) only made a negative, if any, impact to players who heavily invested in nanoweave armo, which is not your average newbie.

Baneblade · 2014-08-01, 06:57 PM

Frankly, I think headshots need to be removed or there needs to be a way to stop that shit.

KesTro · 2014-08-01, 07:52 PM

Just thought I'd chime in on this again.

We can debate this as much as we want but at the end of the day..

..I'm still the greatest.

"KesTro 2016: A Cleaner Auraxis!"

Stupidity aside someone hit the nail on the head (Or infantry as far as the above poster is concerned hehe) with the game becoming stale, everything else is sort of arbitrary when the core game has essentially been the same with tweaks here and there.

The only thing that has been keeping me playing straight is that I'm in a great outfit and I have an obsession with hunting Auraxiums down on weapons.

So achievement whoring I guess? I really do think directives will do marvels in keeping populations healthy.

Mietz · 2014-08-02, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Rolfski

They're definitely not the same reasons and hardly underlying, except for maybe the sniperside buff, which is hardly a newbie issue in this game imo as players are used to one headshot kills in other shooters.

Other shooters hardly have over 100 people shooting at you at a time from 8 directions and vehicles.

Yes, the causes you listed are symptoms, and they overlap with that one thread i posted in way back when. Except back then it was liberators and rocketpods that were killing everyone.
Now its snipers.
Next month it will be something else.
Fact is TTK is too low for newbs to matter, and that can manifest in many symptoms.

Game is repetitive? Could it have anything to do with bad combat flow and redeployside?
Back when my outfit left it was base zerging, then it was repetitive lanes, now its pointless connections and flow, quartz redesign is just the most egregious example.

Of course its not exclusively those specific examples but they are symptoms of the larger picture that has plagued PS2 for a LONG time.

I mean the newbie unfriendlieness isnt because there wasnt a tutorial, we now have one, it didnt retain anyone more.

Of course Mordes speculation on WHY these things are (devs not playing the game) might or might not be correct, its an opinion, however i agree with that opinion as it seems to be consistent with the other design blunders.

ringring · 2014-08-03, 04:00 AM

I think the devs do play the game certainly higby plays it lots.

Perhaps the problem is that they also play many other games, after all their profession is game developers so knowing about the topic in the round is important.

But I would reckon Higby won't play as a member of an outfit, I think he only plays solo, which given his position is understandable.

I also think he never played ps1 properly and that's why he never quite 'got' what it was all about.

He has played a lot of the BF series and the COD series and maybe that's the reason there is less planetside and more BF and COD pollution in PS2 than there should be.

BlaxicanX · 2014-08-04, 02:10 AM

I've never really understood the rage over headshots in this game.

Objectively, the TTK from getting OSK'd by a sniper that you didn't know was there isn't significantly higher than the TTK from getting killed by random joe with his assault rifle that you didn't know was there- and in a game where there's often 50+ enemies stuffed into one base, the average player will die vastly more times at the hands of a front-line class or a vehicle then they will at the hands of a sniper, and in all instances you probably won't even know they're there until you're dead.

So, why the seemingly arbitrary hate for snipers?

The infiltrator class bugs me because when most people play it they contribute nothing to the war effort- a good sniper will get maybe ten kills in 5 minutes, more in a target rich environment, but killing infantry one at a time from 100 meters away is one of the least vital tasks you can perform in this game, where dozens of players are respawning infinitely and medics can revive a downed player in 1.5 seconds.

When I get killed by snipers though, all I feel is a resounding "meh". If it hadn't been the sniper who got me, it'd have been the light assault, or the heavy assault who entered the room the moment I turned my back, or the Liberator, or the MBT, or the rofl-podding ESf, or or or...

Mietz · 2014-08-04, 04:35 AM

Originally Posted by BlaxicanX

I've never really understood the rage over headshots in this game.

Objectively, the TTK from getting OSK'd by a sniper that you didn't know was there isn't significantly higher than the TTK from getting killed by random joe with his assault rifle that you didn't know was there- and in a game where there's often 50+ enemies stuffed into one base, the average player will die vastly more times at the hands of a front-line class or a vehicle then they will at the hands of a sniper, and in all instances you probably won't even know they're there until you're dead.

So, why the seemingly arbitrary hate for snipers?

Because their effect is cumulative.
Its not like theres only one guy that you 1v1 in this game.
Its "one more thing" you get OHKd by.

Besides explosive OHKs can be prevented with the right equipment, like FLAK armor, which you should be wearing anyways because Nanoweave is even more pointless than it was before now, sniper OHKs can not.

From experience ive yet to consistently die from explosives unless its an LA doing suicide C4 runs because between flak armor and all the healing from medics the damage from explosives is mitigated easier as it comes in smaller chunks.

Also I dont think its really "rage" here.

Babyfark McGeez · 2014-08-04, 06:17 AM

I think my deaths to snipers can be counted on one hand, personally never had a problem with them. C4 and Mine cookie tossers are way more annoying imo.

Maybe less people would snipe with the infiltrator if there would be an alternative. But as a newbie any cqc weapon/smg is atleast 1k certs away, so there is simply no point to do anything besides sniping. So if the amount of snipers is a problem, open up more playstyles for the infiltrator from the start.

Gatekeeper · 2014-08-04, 10:05 AM

Although I do hate being killed by snipers, and even being somewhat careful it does happen quite a bit, I agree that it's the general TTK that's the real problem here. None of the friends I recruited to PS2 play anymore - and frankly I think that's mainly because they got sick of dying before they could even figure out what was happening.

The thing is, a fast TTK is something people cope with ok in other shooters - like CoD say - but those are much, much simpler environments with a lot less to keep track of. In PS death can come in countless forms and from more or less anywhere - that death being more or less instant means new players often spend their time trying to guard against the last thing that killed them, and instead instant-dying to something else they hadn't noticed. Surprisingly, this is not fun.

Mind you, none of my friends got on with PS1 either - so maybe the complexity is the real problem. Could be that a massive, super-complex FPS is just always destined to be a bit niche