NC already have the buff - Page 3

Stew · 2012-04-20, 05:21 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

grass is always greener on the far side syndrome.

the vs with their overpowered medium range no-aim-no-friendlyfire heavy assault weapon were always whining about the jackhammer, completely ignoring that it was only usefull at point blank and wouldn´t even tickle enemys at a few meters of range.

the concept of tradeoffs never reached the purpleminded. if it´s overpowered, it should be vs exclusive! after all, we are the advanced alien faction and all others should get inferiour weapons. just stupid.

if you don´t like your factions set of possible playstyles, change to the other faction!

I support this post !

Tamas · 2012-04-20, 06:22 AM

So? TR got RoF VS got accuracy. They already said you can make TR weapons hit hard but slower and VS to fire faster but less accurate (just 2 examples).

What matters is actual DPS (calculating damage per shot, rate of fire and how many shots actually hit the target).

It works likes this in all games and it's mostly balanced. Perhaps wait for beta before we go - LOTS OF SPECULATION FOR EVERYONE (those who played ME3 know what I mean).

Xyntech · 2012-04-20, 06:44 AM

Originally Posted by Shogun

grass is always greener on the far side syndrome.

the vs with their overpowered medium range no-aim-no-friendlyfire heavy assault weapon were always whining about the jackhammer, completely ignoring that it was only usefull at point blank and wouldn´t even tickle enemys at a few meters of range.

the concept of tradeoffs never reached the purpleminded. if it´s overpowered, it should be vs exclusive! after all, we are the advanced alien faction and all others should get inferiour weapons. just stupid.

if you don´t like your factions set of possible playstyles, change to the other faction!

I liked how the VS played, and the empires were rarely so imbalanced that it was a big problem, but due to the nature of base fights it was very common for the Jackhammer to dominate base fights, and the Vanguards high splash damage was clearly the best MBT for spamming tower doors. Right there you have the other two empires at somewhat of a disadvantage in relationship to attacking and defending the only two capture point types in the entire game.

Again though, never was that big an issue, and the fact that base designs seem to be a lot better made this time around should mean PS2 has no repeat of this situation.

There just were too many things locked in with PS1 that could never change and would forever be slightly broken and we had to just live with. It seems like PS2 will have a lot more options for the devs to tinker with, so if the NC are balanced, great. If they are a little overpowered, tweak either them or something else (base layouts for example). If they are underpowered, buff them or change something else to help them.

While I have no doubt the community will always be bitching about some perceived imbalance, real or fictional, there will be times when things have to be tweaked for the sake of improving the overall experience. Hopefully the devs will be quick to respond to large issues and slow to react to minor issues. Also, hopefully they will be on the ball enough to never release something like Lasher 2.0 without more testing and taking into account more variables, fun as I may have had with it :P

Shogun · 2012-04-20, 09:33 AM

so nc had a doorspammer tank, but vs didn´t even need to bring a tank, they had a doorspammer ha weapon.

it was balanced quite good in the beginning but was screwed up by the devs reacting to fast to whining.
i hope they will balance only based on data this time. and if they gave a unconventional counter to something "overpowered" and one empire is just too stupid to find or use it, then let them whine until one of them finds the hidden countertactic instead of nerfing the first thing.

Kilmoran · 2012-04-20, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by biertrappist

I liked NC the best. I liked their reason for fighting, and the harder hitting weapons sounded like my play style.

Kevin Moyer Dev

http://www.planetside2.com/news/dev-...vin-moyer-2012

Isn't this... 9 year old common knowledge?

Verruna · 2012-04-20, 02:11 PM

..Troll thread with 3 pages?

Mezorin · 2012-04-20, 03:21 PM

The problem with inter empire differences didn't come from "harder hitting" verses "accuracy", they came the fact that weapons were in entirely different categories all together.

For instance, the Jack Hammer verses MCG verses Lasher. The MCG is akin to machine gun, and the lasher was, well the lasher but still more of a fire support weapon. The jack hammer was a close quarter shotgun. One of these things is not like the other. Frankly, I like how the new heavy assault class will have medium range machine guns, and close quarter room clearers for all three empires. Everyone gets their short range, and everyone gets their medium range, and we're all happy.

And yes, you maybe right, Verruna. I thought this issue was already said and done to begin with. Of course, this would not be Planetside without "Nerf the jackhammer!" turning up before it even exists

jollytraveller · 2012-04-20, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Xyntech

I liked how the VS played, and the empires were rarely so imbalanced that it was a big problem, but due to the nature of base fights it was very common for the Jackhammer to dominate base fights, and the Vanguards high splash damage was clearly the best MBT for spamming tower doors. Right there you have the other two empires at somewhat of a disadvantage in relationship to attacking and defending the only two capture point types in the entire game.

The Prowler is a far, far better door camper than the Vanguard. Both tanks can 1-shot kill yet the Prowler has twice the rate of fire. Granted the Vanguard is also good at camping doors but to say it's the best is farcical.

Secondly, whilst I have no particular issue with the JH I never really understand these comments about it dominating in base fights. Yes, it does dominate at point blank range, but in order to close to that range you have to nearly always pass though the sweet spot for your opponents HA, and if you don't then the NME is woefully mis-placed in the base. Trying to run down a corridor in a base with your JH against corner camping Lashers and MCG's is NOT easy, or advisable.

What people really mean is that the JH is extremely good during a base defense and frankly that could be said about any of the HA's. Any remotely decent HA player knows how to defend each base and each corner to the best of their HA's ability.

Trying to assault a base with a JH can be horrible. When I play my TR and VS, the most fun to be had is defending a base against the NC. You can massacre them if you know what you are doing. Until they get the Scat MAX's that is..........

Rbstr · 2012-04-20, 03:49 PM

You can make a case for high alpha being overpowered when looked at in conjunction with shots-to-kill as opposed to simple DPS.

Lets say dudes have 10hp and two guns: one does 5 damage at each second. one does 3 damage every half second. 5dps vs 6dps
The higher alpha gun will kill you on two hits, comprising 1 second of getting hit. The other needs 4 hits which means he needs 1.5 seconds to kill you. A 7 DPS gun which did all of its damage every second as well wouldn't be any better than the 5dps gun.
Obviously this averages out with larger HP values, but it's important to remember: Averages don't always tell the whole story.

Eyeklops · 2012-04-20, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by biertrappist

I liked NC the best. I liked their reason for fighting, and the harder hitting weapons sounded like my play style.

Kevin Moyer Dev

http://www.planetside2.com/news/dev-...vin-moyer-2012

So...umm..yea..your right. NC have Higby, the creative director, so I am sure NC will have the buff. But we, VS, have T-Ray, the art director, so we have the look. TR must know somebody too because they got the bullet.

Fenrod · 2012-04-20, 04:08 PM

I think TR are all alone this time. Is there any VIP who supports our cause ?

**Malorn** · 2012-04-20, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by Fenrod

I think TR are all alone this time. Is there any VIP who supports our cause ?

If I understand correctly, Dan Binter, Josh Hackney, and Josh Sanchez are our TR brosefs on the dev team.

The rest are all a bunch of NC bandwagon jumpers and VS princesses.

Though I think there are at least a few artists who like TR. I can't think of any other reason why the TR would look so awesome.

Shlomoshun · 2012-04-20, 06:36 PM

Just thinking back to Surgyjacknewbs all over the place, takes me back.

Having been into PS1 early, but left early, long before they started killing it, I always thought the biggest problem as a VS was no valid places to take advantage of our mobility. We were at our best in open territory, but none of the important fighting took place there, so basically war in the open areas was avoided. I'm very much excited by the current goal of making war fun and valuable at all locations, not just towers and bases.

Xyntech · 2012-04-21, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by jollytraveller

The Prowler is a far, far better door camper than the Vanguard. Both tanks can 1-shot kill yet the Prowler has twice the rate of fire. Granted the Vanguard is also good at camping doors but to say it's the best is farcical.

Both tanks were good for camping, but rate of fire was rarely a concern. The Vanguards larger and deadlier splash damage was where I was heading with the comparison. Made it that much easier to die to stray shots whenever a tower door would open.

Originally Posted by jollytraveller

Trying to assault a base with a JH can be horrible. When I play my TR and VS, the most fun to be had is defending a base against the NC. You can massacre them if you know what you are doing. Until they get the Scat MAX's that is..........

Perhaps now, but I still have memories of surgile strongly etched in my mind. JH's are still great up close and used to be the absolute final word. PS1's bases just aren't designed well. It's not so much that they were designed to favor one weapon or another, so much as they failed to be well balanced to accommodate a wide range of combat within them.

The three empires were well balanced in theory, but the practical geography of Planetside made for certain problems. It seems like the level designers for PS2 are a little better versed in how important map design is to having a balanced game. That and class systems should take care of any imbalances a lot easier.

Hermes · 2012-04-21, 07:53 AM

There was huge whining, crying and witchhunts from all factions over balance in PS1.

Claiming that one side had it all their own way is just picking arguments - this is either a weird troll attempt or you haven't picked your toys up after chucking them out of the pram 7 years ago.

We've had all these arguments over and over. Lets wait till beta before we fire up some new ones? I've got my caps lock key ready to go NEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRFFFFFFF